Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?

[jeffwins24]

That is really comparing apples and oranges. Here is another way to look at it: it is kinda sad stock for stock the 1.8 turbo ca18et makes just as much horsepower as the n/a 1.6 4a-ge. I mean the ca18et has 200 more cc's plus a turbo and it makes the exact same amount of hp. How about we throw adjustable cams and cam gears, headers, exhaust, intake and ecu tuning at the 4a-ge and compare it against a stock ca18et. Would that be a fair comparison? Lets all think long and hard about that one I know it is a tough question.

As for the vg30e at 14psi to stock vg30de comparison I would still rather take the de for the all around package. And the stock vg30e at 14psi would not "smoke" the de it might win by a little (assuming this is in an s12 not their original chassis). A vg30e with the stock turbo at 14psi and everything else stock would probably make maybe 240-250 crank hp. The De makes 220 crank hp stock. That is not a huge difference. Just because something is boosted doesn't automatically make it better. On the track hp for hp n/a is generally superior due to the fact you don't need to deal with turbo lag and have immensely better throttle response while cornering.

sorry redneck i was trying to keep it as stock as possible without modifying one motor and not the other. it wouldn't be fair if you just modified the 4ag and not the CA18, yes the CA18 has a turbo from factory but thats just the nature of the motor and how it's built from factory.

Your right about that, but you have to remember modifying a N/A (unless it's a V8) is gonna cost you more money to build then a boosted motor. your right about the track hp and N/A, cornering though, i could see the advantage to that.

what ever. both are Vg's and both are great motors built for their time.

IN MY OPINION i still think a Vg30DE isn't practical

[tommy]

Thanks guys, I was beginning to believe that I was the only one here with some sense of realism... honnestly, who here as 500hp in their 2700 lbs car and are not satisfied with it... and IMO N/A is a LOT better then F/I, yeah, you don't have the same hp numbers, so the same bragging rights as the boosted engines, but you have a lot more satisfaction when driving your car to it's limit then you do pushing a car to 1/2 it's limit before you run outta gut/traction/friction or simply road....

Anyways, it's my own opinion and yes I would be gladly satisfied by a N\A DE with 4 cams, exhaust and intake... yes think ITBs lol It will NOT make higher numbers then your boosted ET but will have a nicer powerband and will be a lot of fun to drive.... *edit* and less of a bitch to work on and maintain.... *edit*

[Redneck]

what ever. both are Vg's and both are great motors built for their time.

IN MY OPINION i still think a Vg30DE isn't practical

Practical is a broad word. I personally don't see what would be so hard about doing a vg30de swap compared to a vg30et swap into the s12 chassis. The vg30et swap would actually probably require a lot more work compared to the vg30de because the z31 turbo engine won't drop into an s12 and needs to be heavily modified to fit. That is why you see a lot of people suggesting going remote mount if you have an s12 SE to avoid all that. As Tommy was saying the nice thing about the vg30de is that it isn't turbo so you don't have all that plumbing and turbos to make fit. Either way like you said both engines are great so you really can't go wrong whichever one you choose.

[Xtortion]

nobody can say "you would have more fun" this or that, everyone has their own personal preference, which is why fun debates happen.

300whp in a 3k lb car i imagine would be tons of fun to drive, ive driven my buddies wrx->sti conversion, hes making about 310 to the wheels, and its a blast to drive, but i know the car can be faster and be an even bigger adrenaline rush (for me, and for him) which is why he is still seeking more HP, and im all for him going for it.

i personally LIKE the sudden launch and incredible power increase you get with a turbocharged motor, the sound of the turbo screaming as your car goes hurtling down the road or twisties. Luckily i have an SE, so the most logical route for me is to NA->T conversion. it also helps that im a certified welder and work in a fabrication shop where i can pretty much make whatever crazy crap i feel like.

But on the note of DE in an s12, ITB i imagine would sound SICK, if i still had my old XE, that might actually be something id wanna do. i wouldnt mind a high HP boosted car, and a lower HP light weight car for DD and just screwing around. i had seen a 2X0z that was turbo'd with ITB, some crazy plenum design, with the TB inside the sealed plenum to keep pressure in.

[Arro]

It all sounds like opinions to me.

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

In that SE review, it says we have 3.7. I thought it was 3.9. and it also says the timing gears are chain driven.

Sorry to be off topic

[Redneck]

http://www.v6-s12.com/Specifications.htm

I believe the above link is from cls12vg30 who is mentioned in this thread http://www.club-s12.org/about.php so I would think his info is fairly accurate.

He lists the SE curb weight at 2975. I think that is a little conservative and it probably didn't have much fuel. It makes sense the SE would naturally be heavier. It has bigger brakes and a piggy vg30 in the bay. The turbo had smaller brakes and an engine around half the weight. 300ish extra lbs are about right for the heavier vg30 and beefier brakes. And yeah that article did have a few misprints on the tech specs but I still think the curb weight is accurate as were 93% of the other tech specs.

[tommy]

If my memory serves me right, the VG30 is about the same weight as the KA24, a little heavier but not that much, and the KA24 is about 100 lbs heavier then the CA18ET.  And the brakes are not THAT much bigger, might add a couple of pounds from the rotor, but I doubt the rest of the system is any heavier... Someone should weight is SE on a REAL scale, the weight on your registration is probably way off... hell my 88 XE hatch was rated at 1060 kg -> 2336.9 lbs....
which I highly doubt is correct....

[Redneck]

If my memory serves me right, the VG30 is about the same weight as the KA24, a little heavier but not that much, and the KA24 is about 100 lbs heavier then the CA18ET.  And the brakes are not THAT much bigger, might add a couple of pounds from the rotor, but I doubt the rest of the system is any heavier... Someone should weight is SE on a REAL scale, the weight on your registration is probably way off... hell my 88 XE hatch was rated at 1060 kg -> 2336.9 lbs....
which I highly doubt is correct....

Well until you site a couple difference sources quoting the SE at whatever weight you think it is this is all speculation. I sourced two references from club s12 saying it is basically 3,000lbs. It is almost as if you completely ignored my previous post. My registration also says it is 3,000lbs as well. The registration for my s13 says it weighs 2,700ish lbs which is correct for that as well as it is common knowledge s13's weigh 2,700 on the low end and and 2,800 on the high end stock. Maybe where you live the registrations curb weight listings are inaccurate but in Washington State they seem basically dead on. Your right about the brakes not being that much heavier but it does add a little additional weight so I figured it was at least mentionable to add.

[fyneyoungstunna]

well forgive me for bumping an old thread, but i finaly feel great that i have some knowledge to drop in an engine thread.
here are some FACTS:

1)the motor mounts on a vg30e and DE and DETT are all the same
2)if they can put a dett in an 510 than you can put one in a 12
3) DE, is not practical AT ALL you hp will top out a 240 or less
   NO ONE has broken that limit EVER on an N/A de
4) maxima clutch and flywheel will solve your trans problems
5)DE's and DETT are EXPENSIVE to maintain.
6)DETT is a better engine than the rb. in many ways.
7) dispute the above and ill kick you in the junk (jk thats purely speculation) but the tq numbers are more even and better increasable through little mods on the DETT.

sorry for bumping an old thread, but stella influenced me.

[methylprop]

well forgive me for bumping an old thread, but i finaly feel great that i have some knowledge to drop in an engine thread.
here are some FACTS:

1)the motor mounts on a vg30e and DE and DETT are all the same
2)if they can put a dett in an 510 than you can put one in a 12
3) DE, is not practical AT ALL you hp will top out a 240 or less
   NO ONE has broken that limit EVER on an N/A de
4) maxima clutch and flywheel will solve your trans problems
5)DE's and DETT are EXPENSIVE to maintain.
6)DETT is a better engine than the rb. in many ways.
7) dispute the above and ill kick you in the junk (jk thats purely speculation) but the tq numbers are more even and better increasable through little mods on the DETT.

sorry for bumping an old thread, but stella influenced me.

This is good info. Very little but very good. I can breath a little easier if the vg30dett and vg30e mounts really are the same. So far i'm going to have a new y pipe and drive shaft made other than that i'm lookin to do any mods nessasary to the chassis.


vg30dett swap FTMFW. I can not wait.

"DETT is a better engine than the rb. in many ways."
+1,000,000

[fyneyoungstunna]

what else would you like to know?
i have tons of info now on the vg30de(tt)

[TurboNotch]

1)the motor mounts on a vg30e and DE and DETT are all the same

wrong. the bolt holes line up right but the DOHC motors sit about an inch and a half higher than the SOHC. when i helped put a dett in a Z31 we cut the mounts at the cross member down and re-welded. then slotted about 6 or so bolt holes on the pan and the z31 pan fit like a glove.

and from my experience the dett swap isn't worth the time and money, at least in the z31 which has a turbo option.

has anyone ever compared the x-members of an SE s12 and z31? like frame mounting points and overall width?

[fyneyoungstunna]

poly mounts will solve the height issue.
one of the only reasons i chose the sinle cam over the dett is because its cheap and easy to work on. if i had a tt Z to begin with thats the motor that would stay in. They are more powerful than an rb could fathom.

poly mounts will solve the height issue.
one of the only reasons i chose the sinle cam over the dett is because its cheap and easy to work on. if i had a tt Z to begin with thats the motor that would stay in. They are more powerful than an rb could fathom.

I am very curious about the x-member across the board: z32, s12,z31,m30,and Ka hardbody.

[Wolf Dilworth]

IN MY OPINION i still think a Vg30DE isn't practical

Here is a couple of pics of a friends Dime "Red" with a VG-30DETT if this can be done...

By the way, Dave said if he had to do it all over, he would not.

[Candellan]

That's a mighty impressive fit. I can only imagine how hard it is to do a service in that engine bay.

[Wolf Dilworth]

That's a mighty impressive fit. I can only imagine how hard it is to do a service in that engine bay.

Actually, it isn't too bad.  Spark plugs come out the top and the oil filter is reach-able from underneath, so the jiffy kid can even do that. Oil ins and outs are in the usual locations.  

Sure the alt. is a toughy but how often do you need to do that?    

Wolf

[Wolf Dilworth]

DeeDeDeeDeDeDee DeDeDeeDeDeDe...Late breaking news from the AP, Broadcast via the RCA Radio network to all the troops abroad and our ships at sea...

OK just kidding, this thread may be dead, however, there is a special event on the horizon.  Dave's "Red" will be making a trans-continent trip to the SPEC 510 this year.

Just what is SPEC 510 you ask?  Summit Point East Coast 510 event.  An annual Datsun 510 gathering on or about May 10th "Five Ten Day". This year the event is 13-15 May, 2011.  This will be a very rare chance for those of you on the right coast to see a VG30DETT shoe-horned into a Datsun chassis.  Dave will be driving in from Oregon to West Virginia, somewhere in the neighborhood of 2700 miles.  This year I will be driving my SE from Texas, Franken Wagen is still not ready to roll.

There will be a vintage car race (Jefferson 500) event that same weekend at the facility, so there is plenty of entertainment to be had, camping is allowed on site and hotels (Charles Town, West Virginia) are available for the folks who can not separate themselves from the indoor plumbing thing.

Here is a link to the event:  www.eastcoastdatsun510.com 

And here is the event from last year at the Mitty: http://eastcoastdatsun510.com/The_Mitty_.html

Here is the track web page: http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/

Sorry there is no drifting allowed at this facility.  Drafting yes, drifting no.

Here is a couple of pics of a friends Dime "Red" with a VG-30DETT if this can be done...

By the way, Dave said if he had to do it all over, he would not.

[Wolf Dilworth]

Holy necro-post Batman...

I am gonna have to pass on SPEC 510 this year, sudden med bills and gas prices have forced me to fold.  :o(

[radoublely]

So, I go here then?




Using the infinity J30 to model the intake off (that's also where we got the MAF),

Now, I was particular about keeping the car NA, it's a decent motor stock as it is and obviously we're doing the standard bolt-ons, our main focus is going to be tuning the suspension setup.  The goal of this car is to handle.  One thing for sure, the vg30de is heavier than the e, power is power. Eh.
Post Merge: 09:36:33 PM / 24-Apr-11

How bout the vg30de? Is it still a pain in the ass to drop in the dohc n/a?

yes the motor is gonna be a tight squeeze either way n/a or boosted just you'll have alot more headache with the boosted because of the turbos if you happen to blow one you'll have to pull the entire motor to get to it I say stick with the vg30e and have fun with it. But if your hearts content with gettin the vg30de/dett then go for it but you'll hate yourself in the end

Yes.