Unqeual wheel fitment.... one side is out further than the other

[CamInHead]

Hey guys, I need people's experiences of doing the front S13 conversion and the results.

I now have;
Brand New (pattern/cheapo) Stock S12 LCAs with S14 balljoints
S12 BC coilovers
S13 Adjustable Tension Rods & S14 Tension Rod Brackets
S13 Tie Rods & Ends
5-lug S14SE Hubs
Stock S14 SE Wheels

WIth stock S14 rims (6J, ET35 IIRC) Right side wheel is absolutly flush with the wheel arch and, with the top mounts maxxed out, just under 2'-ve camber. The other has mild poke and nearly 3'-ve camber.
Odd thing I noticed is only the right side moved to a ton of toe-in with the S12 LCAs and that was easily adjusted out. I still have S13 Tie Rods and Ends and they have plenty of adjustment left to spare. Shouldn't shorter LCAs demand shorter Tie Rods ? I was expecting much less camber, wheels tucked into the arches and a ton of toe-in.

So what kind of fitment and geometry have people found doing the S13 conversion ? Are S14 5-lug hubs taller ie; more pokey out than S13 ?

Here's some of the data;

S13 LCAs
Camber -3'45 -3'22
Cross Camber 0'23
SAI 16'24 16'47
Cross SAI 0'23

S12 LCAs
Camber -2'56 -1'42
Cross Camber 1'15
SAI 15'17 14'51
Cross SAI 0'13

This damn car has fought me every single step of the way and I'm just about ready to break it and scrap the bastard.

[Arro]

The hubs should be the same, but I have a similar issue but less pronounced, when my top plates are set to identical marks, the passenger wheel pokes more than the driver side. Since your driver side is my passenger side, it makes me wonder if either of our cars aren't tweaked a bit from being driven mildly into curbs and such... yours would be on the opposite side of mine because of the different driver position. My side to side difference is minimal so I just used my top plates to adjust, but I haven't taken the car to an alignment shop yet to see. It wouldn't be the first time the front end of an S12 was slightly irregular, yours could just be worse than others.

Also, something to note about pattern parts... we don't have this problem here as much in the States, but from what I understand, pattern parts in the UK are often made with really shitty quality control. It's not uncommon for a pattern fender to not line up at all, or for a pattern engine accessory to not fit right. You could have a control arm that is DEFECTIVE! In the end, a factory original arm would be best if I were going to get a part for a car there.

Common fitment for S13 conversion depends on what arm, not on what hub. Oh and of course the wheel But your wheel is actually reasonable offset. S13 arms are longer than S12, and S14 arms are longer than S13. I usually suggest to people that if you don't want to deal with camber issues, use S12 arms. S12 arms.

Not sure that answers your question exactly but hopefully it raises some thoughts on the situation.

[CamInHead]

These S12 arms were imported from America via ebay......though I measured and compaired it to an OEM S13 arm and it was indeed 10mm shorter.
Post Merge: [time]09:20:50 PM / 03-May-12 [/time]y'knw I think I'll just slam it to 3-ve and sell it to one of the local drift/stance fraternity

edit: I found a picture of Henry/Asparagus' car which has a similar set-up;


that's what my "good side" looks like but with stock S14 rims and I haven't had the arches modified at all like he has done.

So I skim-reads 80-odd pages of thread. **** it, I'll have to rock the 3 degrees and be a stance hero. Should work pretty well with the 2 1/4 rear and S-bodies are man enough to run the camber without munching tyres.

[Jay]

S13 tie rods and ends will not work. she'll be toed in like a mofo.

You need to go out and buy 97 ford escort tie rod ends. Typically in stock at Autozone or Advance.

[Arro]

Yeah my car looks like Henry's in terms of fitment in the front....

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

I am running the same set up as you (Hubs, arms, T-rods) and when I first put it on I had crazy camber (-5.5 at full positive) and for me this was fine for drift, but I was trying to figure out why. Well after a little reading, (and looking at coilovers) I saw the bottom hole was slotted and if you don't pull on your coilovers when you tighten them down you end up was extra negative camber you didn't want. After I did it the proper way, at full positive camber I was at +1.5 and at full negative I was at -5.5

Also about your wheels being different offsets (looks) My car is the same way, I ended up rocking a 7mm spacer on one side

[CamInHead]

S13 tie rods and ends will not work. she'll be toed in like a mofo.

You need to go out and buy 97 ford escort tie rod ends. Typically in stock at Autozone or Advance.

Mine work and I'm 99% sure I have S12 LCAs due to the length and the way the tension rod mounts. Doesn't make much sense.....

I am running the same set up as you (Hubs, arms, T-rods) and when I first put it on I had crazy camber (-5.5 at full positive) and for me this was fine for drift, but I was trying to figure out why. Well after a little reading, (and looking at coilovers) I saw the bottom hole was slotted and if you don't pull on your coilovers when you tighten them down you end up was extra negative camber you didn't want. After I did it the proper way, at full positive camber I was at +1.5 and at full negative I was at -5.5

Also about your wheels being different offsets (looks) My car is the same way, I ended up rocking a 7mm spacer on one side

I think that depends on your coilovers as mine are 100% not adjustable at the two pinch bolts. I could probably slot the hole myself but meh the wheel would still stick out the fender etc.
If I can get all the OEM hardware I'm gonna sell the front coilovers and the S14conversion parts (££/$$ over here) and just get stock legs and lowering srpings. This is too much like hardwork.

[Arro]

Or the other option is you could go back to S12 stock arm and knuckle/spindle, and just modify it with a sleeved conversion.

[CamInHead]

Or the other option is you could go back to S12 stock arm and knuckle/spindle, and just modify it with a sleeved conversion.

Finding anything stock S12 is more or less impossible over here. I've had an eye out for OEM arms for over 6 months now.

[BattleFairy]

HAHA this topic is gold worth....i felld like a reatard when i saw that my passenger side was toed in to the max while i was seeking the error on my Tierod adapters



s12 LCA
S13toS12 Tierodadapter
S13 Cusco Coilovers

[Arro]

The hubs should be the same, but I have a similar issue but less pronounced, when my top plates are set to identical marks, the passenger wheel pokes more than the driver side. Since your driver side is my passenger side, it makes me wonder if either of our cars aren't tweaked a bit from being driven mildly into curbs and such... yours would be on the opposite side of mine because of the different driver position. My side to side difference is minimal so I just used my top plates to adjust, but I haven't taken the car to an alignment shop yet to see. It wouldn't be the first time the front end of an S12 was slightly irregular, yours could just be worse than others.

To bump this thread a bit... I went out and played with some levels and such and saw that the passenger side is indeed way more outta spec than the driver side. I am beginning to think that this is indeed an issue with the unibody not proper with the subframe. Because obviously the S12 control arms (and even the S13 control arms, which pertains to Peter's issue) aren't going to be different lengths. I am more and more convinced that the front end unibody is out of spec. I go back to my earlier point above about how this is the case with his UK-spec RHD S12, on the opposite side of my North American-spec LHD car.  I think there is a connection. I can't really see how one side can poke so much more than the other side. Maybe the crossmember itself is the problem? Or maybe the unibodies on these cars were just so cheaply made that they came out inexact by that much, but with the sunken factory wheels and looser wheel fitment, it wasn't noticable by consumers so Nissan just said "acceptable" and sent them to the dealerships...?

I'm changing the title of this thread, since it seems clear to me that this isn't about S13 conversions, but about unequal wheel fitment which would affect any S12.

[seishuku]

Car spends a lot more time with more weight on one side than the other? (ie. driver)
Maybe a different form of gangsta lean?

I mean, some S12's a almost 30 years old, something's gonna give.

[CamInHead]

Mine was square with the S13 arms so I pinned it on moody arms and/or balljoint location. I agree Nissan operated on a "good enough" principal and it is more noticeable with the S13 conversion, though. IIRC it's the likes of Ferrari that measure each specific car before delivery.
I can say it isn't deliberate as;
1) Nissan and Japanese generally have never done assymettric wheel geometry. I think the latest GTR does, though.
2) If they had they would have published LHD and RHD specific geometry which they didn't do.