dropping Front Cross Member?

[Keith]

So I've got my tranny out of the car currently.  I was hoping my oil leak was coming from the rear main seal, but turns out it is coming from the oil pan.  I've changed it once before with the engine, trans, and cross member in place, but was a serious pita.  I had to jack the engine up off of the mounts to get the clearance to slide the oil pan out.  I still had to reach in and blindly unbolt the pick-up tube in about a 2" gap.  All-n-all it was doable, but sucked.  
I was wondering if it would be easier to get an engine support bar and support the engine from the top, drop the cross member which would make it a hell of a lot easier to change the oil pan gasket.  Engine support bars like this are fairly cheap...



The big question is though with the engine supported by a engine support bar....how hard would it be to drop the front cross member? What all is involved?

[rednucleus]

Last yr when I was asking about engine installs, two members said they preferred taking the motor out from underneath.

[cutter67]

i really dont see a benefit to it. you still have to unbolt the motor mounts plus the cross member. either way its a pain in the ass to do.

[Keith]

Unbolting the motor mounts is the easiest part of the whole job...lol  Without the trans in it would be a lot easier to get the oil pan gasket seated properly if I left the cross member in place....but if i remember correctly, the last time I replaced the oil pan gasket I raised the engine by pushing up on the trans bell housing with a floor jack.  With the trans out, where should I place the floor jack?  I'm thinking there may be no other option but to drop the cross member

[cutter67]

i would jus t pick motor up with engine lift. it should come up highr with tranny out but you have to watch your exhaust and hoses for rad and heater core

[Keith]

i would jus t pick motor up with engine lift. it should come up highr with tranny out but you have to watch your exhaust and hoses for rad and heater core

Good point.  Heater hoses are gone, so those aren't an issue.  Downpipe removal is easy enough.  I guess I would need to keep an eye on the intercooler pipes along with the rad hoses as mentioned.  I really don't want to have to rent an engine lift.  Any idea if an engine can be lifted a few inches with one of those engine support bars?

[cutter67]

i would not try lifting with it. the weight from those are on the fenders and you have a really, really, really nice S12 and i cant even imagine what you would do if you put a couple of dimples in the top of your fenders. i dont think its worth the risk

[Cajun1guy]

Keith, I have dropped the cross member out before and it was surprisingly easy. If you can come up with a support to suspend the engine, it should work out if you want to go that way. As I recall, biggest pain was dealing with the P/S rack and the mess of disconnecting lines and steering shaft.

[Keith]

Hey Ted.....I sent you an email the other day.  I know your busy, but when you get a chance, can you elaborate on the process?  I really need to get the oil pan gasket swapped out.  Thanks buddy

[Cajun1guy]

E-mail sent my friend. It's not a bad task to do.

[rednucleus]

I request lots of pics and a sticky please

[Keith]

Easy as pie!   Made getting the oil pan out a breeze.

[mentalxpreshun]

Got more pics of under showing the clearance and what all was dropped? I been leaking oil too and its getting all over... rear seal looked good upon last inspection so im guessing its the pan. Please help meeee =)

[seishuku]

Or, if you have a strut tower brace, you could use a few ratchet straps too... I've done that before.

Actually, I'll be doing that again sometime soon too... I need to redo my upper oil pan, and I REALLY don't want to drain the coolant and trans oil again and have to disconnect everything.
I would much rather drop the crossmember, plus I need to repaint it again.

For me, all I need to do is unbolt struts (at the ball-joint, leaving struts in), undo u-joint at steering rack, unbolt tension rod brackets, then unbolt the crossmember itself.

Easy as pie.

[Keith]

In addition to what Matt said, i also removed the sway bar,  and unscrewed the power steering lines where they screw into the rack. I'm thinking that was unnecessory though.  I only had to lower the cross member about 5 inches to free the oil pan. I think the steering joint bolt could have stayed in place too as i was able to lower the cross member without disconnecting the steering joint.  Other than that, remove the bolts that bolt the engine mounts to the rubber isolators.

[seishuku]

Oh yea, sway bar... I knew I was forgetting something.
Well, you do have to undo the sway bar body mount to remove the tension rod brackets, though I would probably try to leave it bolted to the control arms if I can.

[mentalxpreshun]

Interesting... Thanks for the extra useful/helpful write-up. Gives me more confidence to tackle the job myself. One more question is regarding the "undo the U-Joint at the steering rack" part. Is it as simple as a bolt or two? Do I need a sort of separator? Sorry if this is a dumb question. Just trying to mentally prepare for this as much as I can, but at work right now so don't have my Chilton's. Thanks in advance.

[Keith]

Yeah it's just one bolt.  Once removed it should slip right out.  As mentioned above, i had plenty of slack on mine to lower the cross member without seperating that connection