Club-S12.org

Club-S12 Community => Announcements => Topic started by: Indecisive on 10:04:39 AM / 16-Oct-06

Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Indecisive on 10:04:39 AM / 16-Oct-06
okay, the spambot thing is getting insane and I've only got one idea that MAY work.  

Basically, everybody right now is on the "member" user group that has the regular permissions(hereafter reffered to member1).

However, I'm thinking of making a second "member" user group (hereafter reffered to member2).  

Basically, everybody is on member1 right now and everybody who registers is on member1 automatically.  However, I can set it so that once you reach a certain post count, you'll change user groups...  In this case, to member2.  

My idea is this.  Restrict the "member1" accounts to only being able to post replies(as you guys can see, none of the bots post replies, only make new topics).  And then when people's post counts go up to say...2 or 3...then they can post topics.  

The problem with this, is that when I set up member1 to upgrade people to member2, EVERYBODY will be in member1 until they make a post after I set up the upgrade system no matter if you've got 1 post, or 40000 posts.  

Of course I'll make a thread for you guys to just make your first reply post to if that needs to be done, and I'll post up a sticky for the noobs when they first register and what not.  

Just seeing if you guys want to try this.  I mean, it might be in complete vain cause the bots might "figure" it out.  Thoughts?
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: EternalSwap on 11:15:00 AM / 16-Oct-06
So until the first reply, they're not able to make a thread?

Good idea.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Indecisive on 11:23:51 AM / 16-Oct-06
that's the idea behind it.  Don't know how well it'll work, and everybody will need to post up a reply in something to swtich member groups so they can post new topics.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: 200SXXEnotchbck86 on 01:00:51 PM / 16-Oct-06
And the topic should of course be an intro to ones self, if it will reduce and possibly eliminate these dang bots.  Then I am all for it.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: sam31183 on 01:10:03 PM / 16-Oct-06
I say lets do it!
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Nameless on 02:29:03 PM / 16-Oct-06
seems like a good idea
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Jsvob03 on 04:12:03 PM / 16-Oct-06
sounds good. but would this work?...and im not at all sure how this works so bear with me....

When you sign up for sites and such, there is typically a section that has you copy the "handwritten" letters and numbers, so as to avoid automatic programs from signing up. Would that sort of verification work, or am i completely on the wrong page?


a good example is on the myspace page.

http://signup.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseac...08-77c95403c1b4 (http://signup.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=join&MyToken=24bb7d7d-ef63-43f5-9408-77c95403c1b4)

near the bottom you'll see what i mean..
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: SmashedGlass on 04:15:51 PM / 16-Oct-06
Thats an idea Jsvob, and there's also the idea of having 'new' members get screened by a moderator.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Smalltar_The_Impaler on 04:56:09 PM / 16-Oct-06
Problem with new members being screened, is that you still don't know whether they're real users or spambots... Or at least I wouldn't think so, and the text verification doesn't really work in my memory, because on my forums, we get a new spambot every day even though we have that verification (then again, they're free forums, so it's possible that verification is just jank). I'd say, why not try the user group thing. If they're really just bots, it may be a good enough deterrent. Set it to three posts for new users or something, and it should work just fine.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Nameless on 05:01:13 PM / 16-Oct-06
Plus i remember something about the letter recognition thing not working with club s12s provider.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Indecisive on 05:25:50 PM / 16-Oct-06
we can't use that verification method because we need a special type of library, and our host doesn't provide it.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: oldschoolsilvia on 07:08:30 PM / 16-Oct-06
I say try it and see what happens  
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Indecisive on 09:12:53 PM / 16-Oct-06
ok, good enough for me.  We'll do it and see how well it works
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Premo on 11:46:52 PM / 17-Oct-06
word.  a few other forums operate like that.  that and they can only reply in the newbie forums at first to keep the flood down, etc.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: freelp on 04:59:03 PM / 08-Nov-06
Quote from: Indecisive
okay, the spambot thing is getting insane and I've only got one idea that MAY work.  

Basically, everybody right now is on the "member" user group that has the regular permissions(hereafter reffered to member1).

However, I'm thinking of making a second "member" user group (hereafter reffered to member2).  

Basically, everybody is on member1 right now and everybody who registers is on member1 automatically.  However, I can set it so that once you reach a certain post count, you'll change user groups...  In this case, to member2.  

My idea is this.  Restrict the "member1" accounts to only being able to post replies(as you guys can see, none of the bots post replies, only make new topics).  And then when people's post counts go up to say...2 or 3...then they can post topics.  

The problem with this, is that when I set up member1 to upgrade people to member2, EVERYBODY will be in member1 until they make a post after I set up the upgrade system no matter if you've got 1 post, or 40000 posts.  

Of course I'll make a thread for you guys to just make your first reply post to if that needs to be done, and I'll post up a sticky for the noobs when they first register and what not.  

Just seeing if you guys want to try this.  I mean, it might be in complete vain cause the bots might "figure" it out.  Thoughts?


hope this works
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Indecisive on 05:48:30 PM / 08-Nov-06
it's been working so far.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: drftnassmofo on 02:57:18 PM / 12-Nov-06
thats a good idea..weirded me out when i couldnt post tho.  i thought i was banned or something for not enough recent activity
 
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: martinprint on 02:32:45 PM / 15-Nov-06
is it okay if I put up an animated avatar on my profile?
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: imprtstrtracer on 08:37:59 PM / 16-Dec-06
Yeah i dont like spam bots... this site is kinda confusing to me though i don't know why but it is..... i just wanted to post hi in the noob section.....
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: winez31 on 08:17:58 AM / 12-Feb-07
not my top choice but it works


Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Redneck on 09:46:11 AM / 12-Feb-07
Yeah these spambots are outta control.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: NeedCAforS13 on 03:23:19 PM / 07-Mar-07
hahahha they posted in the thread about them. thats awesome.

apparently they "figured it out"
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: panda s12 on 06:15:00 PM / 07-Mar-07
i found this way to actually break spambots lol

you could make it like ziptied and only let new people in who are refered by people
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Shaunp38 on 11:03:14 PM / 07-Mar-07
I hope it works.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: G-Rider on 11:38:58 PM / 07-Mar-07
seriously... up the moderator count and/or setup validation on registration. thats really the only way. unless you find scripts to stop them.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: jeffwins24 on 05:11:40 PM / 08-Mar-07
gee wounder who voted no???
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: alundra on 07:57:04 PM / 08-Mar-07
Any chance for a forum upgraded?
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: G-Rider on 08:17:48 PM / 08-Mar-07
Quote from: jeffwins24
gee wounder who voted no???

sarcasm? who?
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Cavi Mike on 08:44:12 PM / 08-Mar-07
I voted no also. The bots make posts too, not just make new threads PLUS most new users join to ask questions which requires making a new topic, they don't join to chit-chat. This is a terrible idea, it doesn't make any sense.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Indecisive on 03:09:19 AM / 09-Mar-07
it was working fine up until a week or so ago.  Seems like the scripts were rewritten to take this idea into account.  

Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Empedocles99 on 05:02:34 AM / 09-Mar-07
Quote from: Indecisive
it was working fine up until a week or so ago.  Seems like the scripts were rewritten to take this idea into account.

Indy, you should check your logs to see what ips are posting this rubbish. This round of spammers can probably be blocked by your web server relatively easy.

For kicks, I did some research on the sites that are being spammed all over the internet currently... Their fake isp is www.sitehostingonline.com which is a false front for a nonexistent isp. Their web servers live at: 85.255.119.* and they may be using those computers to post this garbage. If you see those ips in the server logs, you'll know that's who is posting this crap.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: jeffwins24 on 10:15:03 PM / 09-Mar-07
yay now we now what to look for i think??? wait what if someone made sn's and gave them to his friends with the password???
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: jeffwins24 on 06:44:54 AM / 12-Mar-07
there doing it again
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Cavi Mike on 08:23:43 AM / 12-Mar-07
Quote from: jeffwins24
yay now we now what to look for i think??? wait what if someone made sn's and gave them to his friends with the password???
Or how about his friend just makes his own and does it! Wow! What a great idea!(http://cavimike.com/tard.gif)

Dude, they're computer generated. Now will you please just stop posting and go back to browsing? Please?
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: TheXev on 06:35:41 PM / 15-Mar-07
I voted no.  I guarantee this idea will backfire in a big way.  How do I know this?  I run my own forum (http://www.revolve-trans.org/forums/index.php) as well.  Look at the member list on my forum in descending order, what do you notice?  That's right, not ONE spam account, and not one has been posted successfully since mid January.  revolve-trans.org alone receives around 9000-11000 hits an hour, and with that many hits, spam bots are sure to follow.

The first key to understanding how to fight spam is to understand why spammers post.  Even with out posting in forum threads, spammers have a lot to gain by creating users and only posting in their forum profile.  The reason spammers do this is to elevate their sites ranking on google.  Doing this insures that even more people will go to their spam site via google so they can make more money.  Armed with these basic facts now, its time to fight spam!

Now, I want you to understand why I voted no.  The biggest problem I am having right now is the aftermath (http://mirrormoon.org/news/2007-03-01-what_is_so_unlikable_about_the_forums) of the measures I took against spam before implementing a few mods to the forum.  The first was to create a “newb central” where all newbs had to post their first post to basically prove they weren’t a spam bot account.  As you can see from a few of the comments in response, that wasn’t too well received.  I’ve done away with the section since creating this new story, trying to figure out what people don’t like about my forum.

Back in December of 2006, I was fed up with spam bots.  I was removing between 35-40 a day!  Something else had to be done; manual administration was out of the question now, even with two admins doing something about it.  I knew one sure fire way to remove spam accounts was to install an OPM or “Open Proxy Monitor.”  We had moved to an IRC server with one of these on it, and it stopped people from banning evading and spamming our chat room completely.  So, I found a really awesome OPM for phpBB.  Cut the spam bot count down by about 5-8 a day.  Not quite the massive number I was expecting, but it is averaging around 40 a week at the current time (since retweaking what ports are scanned for Open Proxies).  Something else had to be done.

I looked on phpBB.com’s forums for awhile, trying to find out what other admins where doing to stop spam on their forums.  Low and behold I came across Anti-Spam ACP (http://www.lithiumstudios.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4).  Using this little mod gave the forum a few nifty features.  The first was a new randomized series of captcha (aka the little numbers you enter on registration).  This stops nearly all bots that target original phpBB installs.  Then, it also gives you the option of disabling curtain fields on registration, such as signature, website address, and stuff like “AIM, ICQ, MSN etc” contact.  These fields can be enabled for a users in their control panal after a fixed amount of post that you set, or never enabled at all!  So bots that are scripted to send a website address and email are stopped dead in their tracks!

The key thing is to find similar mods that will accomplish the same things for Invision Power Board.  I don’t really have much time to find anything that might accomplish the same thing, but I hope I at least gave you enough of an idea of what you should look for.  Between Anti-Spam ACP and OPM, 170 spam attempts have been blocked in the last week alone!  That’s an amazing number.

I’m warning you against your method so you won’t make the same mistake I did at first.  When you start rounding up users like that, it scares off users from coming to the forum and makes you look bad.  That is how my users see my forum at this point, so now I got some real fences to mend.  This forum is more active then mine, so try your best to keep it that way, okay? lol
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: jeffwins24 on 01:34:00 PM / 16-Mar-07
Quote from: TheXev
I voted no.  I guarantee this idea will backfire in a big way.  How do I know this?  I run my own forum (http://www.revolve-trans.org/forums/index.php) as well.  Look at the member list on my forum in descending order, what do you notice?  That's right, not ONE spam account, and not one has been posted successfully since mid January.  revolve-trans.org alone receives around 9000-11000 hits an hour, and with that many hits, spam bots are sure to follow.

The first key to understanding how to fight spam is to understand why spammers post.  Even with out posting in forum threads, spammers have a lot to gain by creating users and only posting in their forum profile.  The reason spammers do this is to elevate their sites ranking on google.  Doing this insures that even more people will go to their spam site via google so they can make more money.  Armed with these basic facts now, its time to fight spam!

Now, I want you to understand why I voted no.  The biggest problem I am having right now is the aftermath (http://mirrormoon.org/news/2007-03-01-what_is_so_unlikable_about_the_forums) of the measures I took against spam before implementing a few mods to the forum.  The first was to create a “newb central” where all newbs had to post their first post to basically prove they weren’t a spam bot account.  As you can see from a few of the comments in response, that wasn’t too well received.  I’ve done away with the section since creating this new story, trying to figure out what people don’t like about my forum.

Back in December of 2006, I was fed up with spam bots.  I was removing between 35-40 a day!  Something else had to be done; manual administration was out of the question now, even with two admins doing something about it.  I knew one sure fire way to remove spam accounts was to install an OPM or “Open Proxy Monitor.”  We had moved to an IRC server with one of these on it, and it stopped people from banning evading and spamming our chat room completely.  So, I found a really awesome OPM for phpBB.  Cut the spam bot count down by about 5-8 a day.  Not quite the massive number I was expecting, but it is averaging around 40 a week at the current time (since retweaking what ports are scanned for Open Proxies).  Something else had to be done.

I looked on phpBB.com’s forums for awhile, trying to find out what other admins where doing to stop spam on their forums.  Low and behold I came across Anti-Spam ACP (http://www.lithiumstudios.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4).  Using this little mod gave the forum a few nifty features.  The first was a new randomized series of captcha (aka the little numbers you enter on registration).  This stops nearly all bots that target original phpBB installs.  Then, it also gives you the option of disabling curtain fields on registration, such as signature, website address, and stuff like “AIM, ICQ, MSN etc” contact.  These fields can be enabled for a users in their control panal after a fixed amount of post that you set, or never enabled at all!  So bots that are scripted to send a website address and email are stopped dead in their tracks!

The key thing is to find similar mods that will accomplish the same things for Invision Power Board.  I don’t really have much time to find anything that might accomplish the same thing, but I hope I at least gave you enough of an idea of what you should look for.  Between Anti-Spam ACP and OPM, 170 spam attempts have been blocked in the last week alone!  That’s an amazing number.

I’m warning you against your method so you won’t make the same mistake I did at first.  When you start rounding up users like that, it scares off users from coming to the forum and makes you look bad.  That is how my users see my forum at this point, so now I got some real fences to mend.  This forum is more active then mine, so try your best to keep it that way, okay? lol

there doing it again i say lets try this guy's idea?? what you say
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: starbucks on 01:50:53 PM / 16-Mar-07
Indy, i know this site costs money to run.. and spam bots would not want to pay to post spam. why dont you guys charge like a dollar a month to be a site member. i think everyone that likes the site, would not have a problem with paying twelve dollars a year for it... i would not mind helping the site out at all either, or stopping the spam lol.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: jeffwins24 on 04:00:46 PM / 16-Mar-07
thats fine and all that but i don't think that will stop the bots? OR will IT ????
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Cavi Mike on 06:51:13 AM / 17-Mar-07
Quote from: starbucks
Indy, i know this site costs money to run.. and spam bots would not want to pay to post spam. why dont you guys charge like a dollar a month to be a site member. i think everyone that likes the site, would not have a problem with paying twelve dollars a year for it... i would not mind helping the site out at all either, or stopping the spam lol.
Are you going to mail a check for a dollar every month? Sure you will. Then what is Indy supposed to do, bring 1000 $1 checks to the bank every month and then make sure he reinstates each and every account every month? Listen to what you're saying man, it would be easier for him to delete 50 bots a day, let alone 2.

Now you're prolly thinking 'Just pay through PayPal,' well not everyone has or plans to ever use a PayPal account due to the crazy amount of internet fraud and some don't even have a checking account to wire money from.

But, the most important thing, no one will even bother to sign up and the site will disappear. If you ever remember anything about the internet, remember this:

If it's on the internet, it's free.

That also means that if it has to be paid for, it will be found somewhere else for free.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Smalltar_The_Impaler on 10:00:14 AM / 17-Mar-07
Agreed, that just wouldn't work too well for the community. I mean, especially for the lurkers who rarelt post anyway. I think TheXev is on to something. There has gotta be some anti spam H4X programs around this infrastructure of tubes we call the Internets.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: TheXev on 10:04:13 PM / 17-Mar-07
http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showtopic=229949 (http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showtopic=229949)

Link to an interesting thread with an interesting mod that might prove useful.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: erik_200sxdrift on 12:28:18 AM / 18-Mar-07
Quote from: TheXev
http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showtopic=229949 (http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showtopic=229949)

Link to an interesting thread with an interesting mod that might prove useful.
thats a good idea!!
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: jeffwins24 on 07:26:01 PM / 19-Mar-07
alright this shit has got to stop have you seen what naked girl post up
 
now iv'e been thing ether our mod team dose'nt give  a shit or there out getting layed? but this fucking shit has to stop.i mean for real PORN on our website if it was mine i'd be pissed as hell you guys gota do something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: Smalltar_The_Impaler on 10:43:31 AM / 20-Mar-07
You seem awfully vexed about this Mr. Jeff. Me, I'm always up for free titties. Better then any of the other spammers that just posted links.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: jeffwins24 on 06:51:44 PM / 21-Mar-07
anyway i'm pissed off not cause of the booby part but would you like bot's coming to your site and posting up porn while other poeple's thread's get pushed down.
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: cjcushing on 10:43:30 PM / 29-Mar-07
Um I'm not sure. I guess it all depends on who's threads would be pushed down?
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: @^*FeNdERbeNdeR*^@ on 04:01:03 AM / 22-Apr-07
Is there not a "what letters are in the box" type clearance thing before you can join as a member as in at registration stage?

Hell, the bloody things usually tell me I'm wrong and won't let me sign up

Our CS:S clan server doesn't allow anyone with less than 5 posts to post a url. Could also be worth considering?
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: deadpirate on 03:21:57 PM / 15-May-07
how many active moderators do we have???

Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: kickinDCs on 11:56:11 PM / 15-May-07
haha yea you can always make deadpirate a mod,belive me he has no life and sits on the computer 10 hrs. a day when he's not at my house or at the track with the team. and you cant say its not true ross!lol
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: @^*FeNdERbeNdeR*^@ on 01:10:21 AM / 16-May-07
Quote from: deadpirate
how many active moderators do we have???

Not enough
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: deadpirate on 02:21:02 AM / 16-May-07
haha yea you can always make deadpirate a mod,belive me he has no life and sits on the computer 10 hrs. a day when he's not at my house or at the track with the team. and you cant say its not true ross!lol







quoted for the truth
Title: Idea To Stop Spambots (opinions Needed)
Post by: pukkaSILVIA on 06:25:39 PM / 19-May-07
its happeneing to s12oc too except now new registrations need moderator validation. i kind of guess if there good ones or not from the email and user names.