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S12 Technical Areas => Handling Tech => Topic started by: asparagus on 04:27:41 AM / 17-Jul-07

Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: asparagus on 04:27:41 AM / 17-Jul-07
Thanks for the title fix Indy!


I plan for this writeup to be for the entire set of coilovers, not just the fronts. So this thread will be updated as soon as I fit my rears on. I know this forum lacks a lot of writeups so I hope this helps out you guys, feel free to refer back here and ask all the questions you might have.


Parts:

-s13 coilovers
-s13 spindle/hub with bolts/nuts for coilovers (2 each side, 4 total)
-s13/q45/z32 rotors and calipers

Tools:

-jack
-jack stands
-rachets/wrenches whatever you prefer
-19mm, 17mm, 14mm, 12mm the good ole sizes on most japanese vehicles
-7/8ths socket, I used this for the nut on the ball joint
-needle nose pliers
-breaker bar (I used the long handle from my jack)
-chain? (you'll see)
-ball joint press


You might be wondering about the s13 LCA's and A-1 tie rod ends, I actually didn't use any of that and used the stock s12 LCA and by using that the stock tie rods seemed to fit. I don't know how well it works at the moment as my car is still going through it's buildup and doesn't run. But over time I will see how it runs and might just update this thread with s13 LCA's and A-1 tierod ends. I also did not finish the brakes, I'm trying to get my hands on loaded/rebuilt q45 calipers from an auto store so there are no front brakes on my car atm. I'm planning on getting new ball joints, painting the spindles, and painting my wheel well,(painting a ton of stuff), so please bear with how horrible they all look  

So, you stop by your local convenience store and pick up your set of s13 spindles/hubs
 

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/summer%20project/IMG_3198.jpg)

And here's what it should look like without the mount

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/summer%20project/IMG_3201.jpg)

Put the spindle on the ball joint, tighten, and it should look like this.

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/summer%20project/IMG_3203.jpg)

Connect the tie rod to the spindle, bolt in the coilovers to the strut tower and spindle, and you should have this

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/summer%20project/IMG_3204.jpg)

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/summer%20project/IMG_3205.jpg)

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/summer%20project/IMG_3206.jpg)

At the moment, my car doesn't have brakes so I will update this how to as soon as I get them. Here's how it currently looks without fenders, I'll get better pictures soon

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/summer%20project/IMG_3211.jpg)

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/summer%20project/IMG_3208.jpg)

They currently sit with quite a bit of negative camber, I'll check how they sit with the camber plates all the way positive tomorrow. (they're currently set at all the way negative) Everyone is welcome to correct the setup I currently have, I've read in the conversion thread that this or that is needed and while I was planning on doing all of that, the stock tierod and lca just seem to fit without problem.

-update, I set the camber plates to all the way positive and it looks great. s12 LCA seems to work just fine as far as camber goes


The write up will be updated with brakes and rear coilovers asap.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Richter888 on 02:45:52 PM / 17-Jul-07
Neat, but i have one question and im going to sound like a complete idiot though....I see that the hubs are four lug....My 88 200sx se v6(now a vg30et) is a five lug.  So the hub off of a s13 240SX is four lug?
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: rage on 04:14:53 PM / 17-Jul-07
yeah, youre going to need s14 SE 5 lug, the base models are still 4 lug

how secure is the outer tie rod on the spindle?
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: asparagus on 04:19:23 PM / 17-Jul-07
I didn't tighten it all the way but it looks like it'd be secure. I've read that the nut will NOT thread far enough to secure it with the pin, a few other's have run stock  tie rods without that pin in but for safety reasons I might be getting a pair of a-1 tierods soon.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: rage on 04:49:10 PM / 17-Jul-07
loctite!

but yeah, i can see where that would be an issue.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:16:08 PM / 17-Jul-07
Shouldn't you use the S13 ball joints? I'm personally going to use S13 arms with the spindle, but wouldn't the S12 ball joint be different? I just wanted to point this out for safety reasons.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: asparagus on 04:16:53 AM / 18-Jul-07
Quote from: mod_mastaz
Shouldn't you use the S13 ball joints? I'm personally going to use S13 arms with the spindle, but wouldn't the S12 ball joint be different? I just wanted to point this out for safety reasons.

It actually quite looks the same, and the surface area for the spindles that touch the ball joint are the same. However, I'm buying new ball joints for my control arms and I'm going to look into s13 ones anyway so no worries.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:10:59 PM / 18-Jul-07
I posted this in the other thread but I'll post it again.

If you want 5-lugs with S13 coilovers, you have a few options:

S13 setup
-s13 control arm
-s13 spindle
-s13 5-lug conversion hub(I'm personally going to do this)

S14
-S14 control arm
-S14 SE spindle/hub(SE S14s are 5lug)
-S14 spindle spacer or drill out S13 coilovers to use accomodate larger spindle bolts

S13/14 hybrid
-S13 control arm
-S14 balljoint
-S14 SE spindle/hubs
-S14 spindle spacers or drilled s13 coils.

If you use S14 fronts, might as well use S14 coilovers if you can source it. If not, use S13 coilovers and mix and match S13/14 stuff for 5 lugs. Hope this helps.

Edit, you need other stuff for the coilover conversion, such as
-S14 tension rod brackets ONLY (*not S13*)
-S13 tension rods(stock/aftermarket)
-A1 racing tie rod ends or S13/s14 tie rod inner/outers combo, respectively.

for the brakes you need
S14 5lug rotors
S13/s14 calipers

OR correctly matched Z32 calipers or rotors
OR Q45/j30 calipers and rotors
I forgot the years for the Q45/J30 but I'll clarify later when I convert. I'm still in Seattle so I won't be in Socal for a while.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: asparagus on 01:06:25 AM / 19-Jul-07
Anyone know if s13 tension rods will fit on the s12 brackets and LCA?
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Gopher on 01:43:24 AM / 19-Jul-07
yah they will fit the s12 LCA no prob but the 12 TC rod bracket isnt same style as the s13/14/z32.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Gopher on 09:31:23 PM / 19-Jul-07
i did the s14 tc rod bracket and s13 tc rods and s13 LCA using my stock s12 strut and hub it all works im sitting on some s14 lca's im gonna punch some new bushings and ball joints in when i find my coilovers.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:22:27 PM / 20-Jul-07
I forgot to clarify the brake setups. If you use the Z32 4pots, you will need a Z32 master cylinder and Z32 front brake conversion lines for an S13. The z32 piston diameter is 1 1/16". The S12 master cylinder size should be 15/16", stamped on it, then the Q45/j30 brakes will work fine. As for brake lines, stock S13 lines will bolt up to q45/j30 calipers. I haven't tested the S12 brake lines yet so I don't know. You can get Z31 SS lines and they'll bolt right up to the rears(make sure it is 6 pieces, 2 front 4 rear). The fronts I don't know yet but I hope my Z31 lines will bolt up to my Q45 calipers. For the stock V6ers, they can probably run Z31 SS lines all around(since the front/rear calipers are supposedly the same).
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: mod_mastaz on 04:02:48 PM / 02-Aug-07
UPDATE. My Z31 front lines bolt up to my Q45 calipers, so that means it'll work for the S12/S13/S14/q45/j30 calipers with no problem. I'll post a giant mega info thread once I gather more info.

Z31 EBAY SS lines are all you need whether you are stock or S13 front conversion. Z32 brakes still need the S13 conversion lines, because the Z32 caliper themselves are sealed by an inverted flair, and not banjo(the banjo will bolt up, BUT it's not safe, hence DO NOT DO IT).

{moderator edit:  the Z31 Ebay lines suffered failure after approx. 6 months.  recommend good quality SS ones or new stock type lines, Sterling 1/7/09}
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: RB25sx - SLPR on 03:39:46 PM / 10-Jul-08
How would one approach doing S13 on the rear, but retaining the S12 subframe? There is only one way to do it, and thats with lots of welding, cutting of perches, and gnashing of teeth.

Ideas?
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: David B on 05:16:33 PM / 10-Jul-08
ahhh thanks so much for this, i am deff looking into this, and you make it alot easier to understand,

how much should i offer the junkyard for s13/spindles/hubs?
and should i take anything else from the S13?
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: gadget1382 on 09:54:42 PM / 10-Jul-08
Brake master and larger booster.

Though if retaining rear drums, keep the BM44 as it has a check valve in-built to keep pressure in the rear line a little.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: rred510 on 03:22:32 AM / 27-Jul-08
Can this be done with stock 240 struts instead of full coilovers?
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: DjayS12 on 06:42:55 AM / 27-Jul-08
Quote from: rred510
Can this be done with stock 240 struts instead of full coilovers?

yes
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: mod_mastaz on 08:49:03 AM / 27-Jul-08
You can use stock s13 struts, but you can't use S13 springs as they are much wider and do NOT fit inside the S12 strut tower.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: rred510 on 02:01:59 PM / 27-Jul-08
Do you know what kind of springs can be put on a 240 strut so that it will fit?
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:44:11 PM / 27-Jul-08
Coilover springs. You can use ground control sleeves or any other brand. You might need to use a longer shock insert as S13 struts are very short in an S12 chassis. The struts at full extension is a slammed ride height for the S12. Just something to think about.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: rred510 on 12:01:20 AM / 28-Jul-08
If I do 240 struts can I use the stock 240 brakes for the time being?
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: 8SixS12 on 12:53:25 PM / 03-Jan-09
Okay, 1st I'm new here and would like to say wasup to everybody! I was at the local JY today and was about to snag a set of s13 knucles and hubs for my newly aquired s12 but I found this thread and realized why I could not get them off the car.  Let me say  to asparagus for reminding me that I am not a weakling!  I just did'nt have the right tool!  So let me get this straight. (one more time for the new guy) I will need S14 tension rod brackets ,S13 tension rods, and S13/s14 inner/outer tie rod ends to complete the S13 front conversion?
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: 200sxkitcar on 04:52:32 AM / 08-Jan-09
^ you are correct!  those parts and you'll be good.

Quote from: rred510
If I do 240 struts can I use the stock 240 brakes for the time being?

Yes you can, upgrading to Z32 or Q45 can be done later then at any time.

-------------------

Did some cleanup with this thread, the REAR info is available and sorted, and will be added soon.  If you check Henry's build thread the last couple pages of the 55 or so has his pics of the rear parts going in, and mod_mastaz has all the part #s, links, and source info.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: 8SixS12 on 05:43:39 AM / 08-Jan-09
Thanks 200sxkitcar for clearing that up for me.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: fastest sideways ground speed on 10:32:15 PM / 11-Apr-09
i got my spindles hubs and calipers for $42 at pull a part. i bought rotors and pads from autozone the cheapest stuff came out to just shy of $100. i ordered new springtech shocks for $86 shipped. then new ball joints for $68. i need to go back to pull a part for the brake lines.

incase anyone was wanting a general estimate of how much the build costs. i'll have put about $350 into it by the time i'm done.


note: don't go to the dealership for the whole knuckle assembly... i went there to get a price quote and for everything it would've been $1500...
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: David B on 10:36:57 PM / 11-Apr-09
can i use,


s13 spindles,lCA's,tension rods, sway bar, and tie rods



would that all bolt into my s12..
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: fastest sideways ground speed on 11:54:35 AM / 14-Apr-09
i know you can use the spindles. i'm not sure about the rest of it. i'm gonna get a sway bar from my buddy and see if it fits. (can't argue with free)
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: fastest sideways ground speed on 12:21:34 PM / 15-Apr-09
i got the sway bar did a side by side comparison and they are the same thickness in diameter and have the same mounting points to the chassis.
only differences is the style of the sway bar links and how it mounts to the swaybar itself. s12 has a horizontal hole and s13 has a vertical hole for a mounting point. it would be possible to use an s13 swaybar as long as you use s13 links.

s12
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n221/mr_hondaEP/s12swaybarlink.jpg)

s13
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n221/mr_hondaEP/s13swaybarlink.jpg)
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: chris1986 on 06:44:39 AM / 29-Apr-09
Quote from: asparagus
Anyone know if s13 tension rods will fit on the s12 brackets and LCA?

Quote from: Gopher
yah they will fit the s12 LCA no prob but the 12 TC rod bracket isnt same style as the s13/14/z32.


s13 tensionrods wil not fit on the s12 brackets

and if you use the s14 tensionrodbrackets with s13 tensionrods they dont fit on the s12 lca the bolt patern is different and the s12 tensionrods have smaller bolts
and it's rubbing the swaybar endlinks so dont think that is an option

i am going to trie the s13 lca's tomorrow
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: 8SixS12 on 08:20:13 AM / 29-Apr-09
Quote from: chris1986
s13 tensionrods wil not fit on the s12 brackets

and if you use the s14 tensionrodbrackets with s13 tensionrods they dont fit on the s12 lca the bolt patern is different and the s12 tensionrods have smaller bolts
and it's rubbing the swaybar endlinks so dont think that is an option

i am going to trie the s13 lca's tomorrow
So then s13 lower control arms are absolutely necessary to make this work?  I was under the impression that the s12 LCAs could be drilled out to accept the s14 TR brackets.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: fastest sideways ground speed on 10:03:31 PM / 29-Apr-09
Quote from: mod_mastaz
You can use stock s13 struts, but you can't use S13 springs as they are much wider and do NOT fit inside the S12 strut tower.

i'd have to disagree. i'm currently running s13 springs


Quote from: rred510
Do you know what kind of springs can be put on a 240 strut so that it will fit?

h&r lowering springs.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: chris1986 on 06:35:58 AM / 02-May-09
Quote from: 8SixS12
So then s13 lower control arms are absolutely necessary to make this work?  I was under the impression that the s12 LCAs could be drilled out to accept the s14 TR brackets.


i have put the s12 lca's and s14 tr brackets and adjustable s13 trods on yesterday and redrilled the s12 lca's and it seems to be a good fit did not drove on them though



Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: David B on 08:46:22 PM / 09-Jun-09
for the tiem being can i just weld the castle nut to the tie rod... and just cut it off when i get good tie rods

and my knuckle is stuck to the rod... wont come out
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: schassisowner on 08:50:48 AM / 20-Jul-09
Quote from: fastest sideways ground speed
i'd have to disagree. i'm currently running s13 springs
h&r lowering springs.


ok so the information on this conversion is scattered at best.

so many say you can do the bare minimum as asparagus did, while others say you need the s13 lca, tension rod, and s14 tension rod bracket.

so basically you cannot use just the s13 knuckle/spindle, coilover/ brake upgrade of your choice, and an aftermarket tie rod endlink?

im pretty sure my stock shocks are blown; and i wasnt planning on replacing everything right now; but i have most of the stock s13 stuff (just the coils i would need)

thanks
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: kelso840 on 10:09:43 PM / 26-Jul-09
This thread totally rocks. Have you done the back yet? I would love to see some pix before i mangle my way through there. I just picked up some Office coils that i'm going to get refurbed then slap um on and slam my s12!!!
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Bryan Peters on 10:24:04 AM / 10-Apr-10
you dont need a chain if you have one of these,i got my suspension out in 10min.
not to be bragin im just saying its quicker.(http://onfinite.com/libraries/849260/album/540/405/5fb.jpg)
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: 12dave12 on 12:35:37 PM / 22-Apr-10
Quote from: Bryan Peters
you dont need a chain if you have one of these,i got my suspension out in 10min.
not to be bragin im just saying its quicker.(http://onfinite.com/libraries/849260/album/540/405/5fb.jpg)
so what is "one of these" called?
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Bryan Peters on 07:50:17 AM / 29-Apr-10
I call it a ball joint remover,cheap princess auto tool.
Title: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: therepokid on 06:45:22 PM / 19-May-10
Can you just use the s13 rear coilovers?  Or is there a lot of modification that is needed for them to fit?
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: JRaub on 12:27:24 AM / 18-Nov-10
so what is "one of these" called?


I have only seen the fork style ball joint removers never seen one like that before. However I do have to say its a rather clever tool. I haven't seen any that looks like that any tool stores either.

Anyways I was thinking the same thing about the welding the castle nut to the tie rod. I was also thinking about getting some bar stock the length I need it. Drill it out and tap it to thread the tie rods ends into it. Anyone know how much longer or shorter it would need to be. This could possibly be a little cheaper. I don't know yet. I will have to get in there. Then if need be I can shorten or lengthen them.

I have a little bit of fabrication background. I just need to have an idea of what im doing before I dig into buying raw materials and trying to do this or that. Im just making a list on what I will need to do this conversion.

I want to run this suspension set up.

http://www.meganracingperformance.com/8488-nissan-200sx-coilover-damper-kit-street-series-megan-rac-p-186376.html

Now being that I already have the Independent rear suspension do I need to convert over to the s13. It says I only need the front conversion. Anyone have any more advice to this?
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Jay on 05:28:19 AM / 18-Nov-10
Welding the castle nut is bad juju. If you car were to ever break a tie rod or ball joint at the track or on the street you would be beyond screwed. I have a plasma cutter and would never consider it due to the fact that it would be very easy to damage the knuckle having to cut it off. Plus, the taper of the S12 outer tie rods and the S13 knuckle's receptor are not the same.

With the megan kit, you only need the front S13 hub assemblies with brakes, rotors, and an S13 ball joint pressed into your S12 arm. I have resolved the tie rod issue and have a cheaper solution than the A1 setup, with no tapping, cutting, welding, etc. Factory style regreasable stuff. No heim joints to corrode. 100 bucks shipped for both inner, and outer tie rod ends.

And as a side note, I can't stand that style ball joint/tie rod end remover. I have yet to not break one. I'll take my pickle fork and 3lb maul any day of the week. Never had a ball joint or tie rod end take more than two swings.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: JRaub on 12:12:53 PM / 18-Nov-10
Well I wasnt going to weld it to the knuckle. That would be pretty dumb. I was just talking about a tack on the castle nut to the tie rod end.

But I can get bar stock here locally drill it out on the ends then tap it for the tie rod ends so they would be the correct length. Then I can get them powder coated for like 20$ from a buddy of mine. Which I dont think it would be too terribly bad of an idea.

Like I said I just need to know what piece doesnt line up. I have the ability to make virtually any part I really need. Your only limited by your imagination, amount of money, and skill with a CAD program. If you have lots of the before mentioned things. Well then you have almost limitless possibilities.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Jay on 01:37:20 PM / 18-Nov-10
I wasn't referring to the nut being welded to the knuckle. It was to the tie rod shaft. You'll still have to cut it off, which can damage the threads and bind the whole assembly (And the worst case scenario, ball spinning in cup), causing you to have to cut near the knuckle anyways.

As for what doesn't line up? Everything...  The inner is too short, so you will need to extend it. The S12 outer tie rods shaft taper is wrong, drops down and angles to the rear. The S12's mounting point is a good 3 inches lower and back than the S13 mounting point. So you would need cut the outer ball joint and weld on a different coupler (Thus heating the cup, and distorting it). Or get bar stock of 2 different sizes (The S13 tie rod doesn't drop down, but is a much smaller rod size) and couple or weld the two together, and then use the S13 outer tie rod. The S13 rod

I thought of it. calculated the angular stresses, tested it in solidworks, and concluded that it would most likely snap/fracture/be a waste of money. and promptly cut a S13 inner tie rod 17mm down, welded it back together, threw it on a lathe, and then just used a factory S13 outer. Took maybe 20 minutes for something I know won't break or stray while drifting. I have since used my parts sourcing, and ASE Parts specialist skills, with a friend in japan who sent me a good 10 catalogs to go through, and found a proper outer tie rod end that uses uncut, factory S13 inner tie rod ends. And I won't give out this information :P

CAD skills mean modeling
Machining, fabrication, and programming skills mean making
Once you have all three, you don't really need much money.

And, for references, picture of the two next to each other, using my original cut and welded tie rods (track backups that I lost the nuts for, and don't care to buy more) against my old factory S12 ones. Yes, they're rusty. I didn't have time in the 3 minutes it took for them to go from the lathe, to the car. And I just never cared enough to go back for it after I pulled them off...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/Phreakonaleash55/utf-8BSU1HMDAyNDgtMjAxMDExMTgtMTQwMy5qcGc.jpg)

I like, appreciate, condone, and applaud your ambition. But it's simply a pointless task
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: S12-AR on 02:50:26 AM / 04-Apr-11
Would this kit work for the S13 front end conversion? Would I still be able to bolt on the stock strut rod?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ball-Joint-TIE-ROD-Control-Arm-KIT-Nissan-240SX-1989-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cf645a164QQitemZ330549272932QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: radoublely on 04:33:59 PM / 24-Apr-11
you know, I was just looking for some the brakes, but I'd been reading on s13 front ends and such, saw this laying in the ground at the junkyard and picked it up.  Now, I did get tein s13 coilovers and I'll let you guys know how the package turns out :)

(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i35/radoublely/131186_512678192731_110000432_30368275_3897062_o.jpg)
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: DeeTeez on 02:41:07 PM / 11-Jul-11
how do you remove the s12 tie rods?

Post Merge: 02:46:27 PM / 11-Jul-11
the inner rod that is...
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: TX200sx on 03:10:22 PM / 11-Jul-11
Ok, possibly a noobie question. I am looking/planning to buy a complete S13 (I know of one with a bad motor and was told I could buy it for a couple hundred) anyways my plan was to just unbolt the entire front end steering rack the whole assembly and swap it with my stock S12. Do you guys think it would work?
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Justin Banner on 05:22:59 PM / 11-Jul-11
Ok, possibly a noobie question. I am looking/planning to buy a complete S13 (I know of one with a bad motor and was told I could buy it for a couple hundred) anyways my plan was to just unbolt the entire front end steering rack the whole assembly and swap it with my stock S12. Do you guys think it would work?

From what I understand and have seen, if you use the S13 cross-member, your front tires may stick out too much and have a ton of negative camber. You can use S13 arms on the S12 cross-member, it's been done plenty of times.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Deezus on 08:36:54 PM / 11-Jul-11
Im pretty sure you can leave the stock s12 lcas, they are the same as s13/14 theyre all just different lengths.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: DeeTeez on 12:01:06 AM / 12-Jul-11
But is it possible to remove the s12 lcas, because i am wanting to upgrade the tie rods so the stock ones will not bend
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: David B on 03:17:08 PM / 13-Jul-11
But is it possible to remove the s12 lcas, because i am wanting to upgrade the tie rods so the stock ones will not bend

the aftermarket ones will just break instead of bend. and if they dont break something its attached to will. nature is glorious when you have no suspension travel


IMO, cheap autozone shit lifetime warranty you can always replace when they bend! though ive never bent one.
trust me though, the brand of tie rod you have will NOT really change what happens when you slam into a curb at 40+ mph. stuff breaks


id only use aftermarket rods if you need them for length reasons. if not focus on some adjustable tension rods or some weed
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: radoublely on 03:01:01 PM / 17-Jul-11
Well, we're almost complete on this setup but we wound up noticing a few problems and here's what I ran into.

The rotors on the s13 front are 4 lug and small.  S14 brake system will go on without too much fabrication so start considering how far you want to go into your brake system BEFORE beginning this operation.  My personal set-up is s13 front suspension mixed with s14 brake components.  I found that this was the best time to put on the cross drilled slotted rotors and get the brake lines steel-braided.

You're going to notice that some of the components aren't as sturdy from the s13 as the s12 and so don't be afraid to use this time to begin re-inforcing some of those components (or just make bigger ones, none of the components we had to re-inforce were complicated to fabricate but it's best if you have access to the right shop)

I couldn't find any sway bars... Custom, $500.  No biggie.

Also, you're going to have a hard time adjusting your rear suspension due to the totally different Geometry.  I hear Meghan racing has some good stuff but they were out of stock so I"m sitting on Tiens right now.

Final set-up-
tien coliovers
s13 front conversion
s14 brake setup
cross-drilled slotted rotors
custom sway bars
steel-braided brake lines
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: David48 on 10:03:09 PM / 04-Sep-11
So in the original post he said he would also do S13 rear coilovers? Was that ever accomplished? I tried contacting henry on his facebook page to ask, but no response :( Has anyone done rears yet?
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: I_heart_VVL on 11:48:07 PM / 04-Sep-11
So in the original post he said he would also do S13 rear coilovers? Was that ever accomplished? I tried contacting henry on his facebook page to ask, but no response :( Has anyone done rears yet?
here ya go:
http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=18344.300

basically,
remove pillow-ball tops/spring/perch from coilovers and use the bottom-mount bushing from your old OEM shocks and done.
then you can weld on the spring perch to the control arm and use the same spring off the coilover or just go to daymotorsports.com and buy springs and perches(real cheap)
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: radoublely on 05:08:03 AM / 25-Dec-11
So in the original post he said he would also do S13 rear coilovers? Was that ever accomplished? I tried contacting henry on his facebook page to ask, but no response :( Has anyone done rears yet?

I have s13 coilovers on the rear, but they don't mount up quite like you'd expect.  The height adjustment doesn't sit where you think it will so you'll have to permanently set it at some point.  It's a different suspension.  Like I said earlier though, Meghan racing has a great product for the 900-1000 USD price range but they were out of stock when I tried and they should be adjustable in the rear as long as you do the s13 front conversion.

Once again, 5 lug guys be aware that the s13 is a 4 lug so plan on doing something to correct that (or go s14 setup).  I did a combo, reinforced s13 setup on s14 brakes and then promptly modified.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Dr.Steels on 11:22:39 PM / 27-May-12
So like deffinitive list of what I need?
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: pakii-afa on 08:20:27 PM / 02-Jun-12
im going the full s13 route, so s13 lca spindle hub caliper ball joint and tc rod. so far ive got all of that and also s14 tc rod brackets. i couldnt find an s13 sway bar but the guy gave me the s14 one free when i picked up the brackets. can i use the s14 sway bar on the s13 setup? thanks.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Arro on 01:09:00 PM / 04-Jun-12
Here are the facts broken down in simple terms.

Megan Racing does indeed make the best kit, but you will have to convert to S13 front suspension (only front). The rears are uniquely designed for the S12.

You can also create your own adjustable height front and rear suspension. The fronts require some cutting and welding though not much. The rears are 100% bolt-in, using a 5x8" spring and a universal fit adjustable spring perch.

S13 rear suspension is a lot of customization: cutting and welding the unibody. The S13 rear suspension is radically different from the S12 setup. A couple people on here have done it but it's a lot of work unless you are experienced with metal fabrication and like math and measuring.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: pakii-afa on 02:55:04 PM / 04-Jun-12
that doesnt asnwer my question at all lol
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Arro on 03:02:59 PM / 04-Jun-12
No but it answered the other guy's question. Basically everything you listed is what you need, yes... I don't see why you can't use S12-spec sway bar. Aren't you using S12 control arms? I recommend you use the S12 control arms or you will have a lot of extra poke which means a lot of extra camber. Way too much. I never understand why people run S13 arms or worse S14 arms unless they are planning to run fender flares or a custom widebody kit (and who really does that).
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: D-sport S12 on 06:04:22 PM / 04-Jun-12
Because racecar
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: nismo_200sx on 10:45:42 PM / 04-Jun-12
extra poke=more steering angle and camber can be adjusted by this magical adjustable piece of metal called "camber plates"
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Arro on 11:15:27 PM / 04-Jun-12
Except that even with camber plates, you end up with 3 degrees or more negative. So your car is then ONLY useful for drift, and not practical at all for regular street use. All for a bit extra steering angle. Which could have been done by simply shortening the steering knuckles. Which has been done before so it's proven to work well.

Oh and I might add to things that much negative camber would probably make the car difficult to control in a drift, since the front wheels are your only contact patch. No bueno. Hellaflush stanced status FTL.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: D-sport S12 on 11:23:31 PM / 04-Jun-12
If a person is going for a street car without tons of tire wear then use s12 arms.
Of you want something more aggressive for street or track car use s13/ s14 arms or if you are baller than adjustable lca's
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: I_heart_VVL on 01:37:12 AM / 05-Jun-12
Ok so for drifting it's good for the front, but not for the rear.

Exactly, just in case you missed the zero rear camber in the corolla in my previous post ;)

And not for either front or rear for street driving.

Unless you love buying tires every couple of months.

But I guess streeting an S12 has zero cool value to it :innocent:

In case that is you being sarcastic- What IS cool about driving an 80's Japanese "Sports Car"? :P
LOL.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: pakii-afa on 04:54:02 PM / 05-Jun-12
ok so no poke then, makes my job easier :) i last question, i heard you needed s13 balljoint for s13 hub? true or will s12 ball joint work.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Jay on 06:09:07 PM / 05-Jun-12
Truth for most. Not needed for few.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: pakii-afa on 11:49:22 PM / 05-Jun-12
thanks.next step, coils and install :)
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Ju_S12_Turbo on 12:07:33 AM / 06-Jun-12
Except that even with camber plates, you end up with 3 degrees or more negative. So your car is then ONLY useful for drift, and not practical at all for regular street use. All for a bit extra steering angle. Which could have been done by simply shortening the steering knuckles. Which has been done before so it's proven to work well.

Oh and I might add to things that much negative camber would probably make the car difficult to control in a drift, since the front wheels are your only contact patch. No bueno. Hellaflush stanced status FTL.

I run -5.5 up front and its killer when I am drifting  :) , But as for the fact about being at least -3 at full positive is false. At full positive camber I am at +0.5, at full negative I am at, well -5.5 lol. 
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: pakii-afa on 12:49:22 PM / 06-Jun-12
yea but how much do your wheels stick out at full positive. that poke is what most people try to avoid unless flares are used or its going to the track only
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Ju_S12_Turbo on 04:06:08 PM / 08-Jun-12
yea but how much do your wheels stick out at full positive. that poke is what most people try to avoid unless flares are used or its going to the track only

It honestly depends on your wheel choices, if you are running stock wheel your "poke" won't be bad at all, it would just make the wheel sit slightly more flush, not Herra frush. if you wanted a idea what it would look like, grab a 10mm spacers and judge for yourself. Its all personal preference and your driving style. 
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: pakii-afa on 09:47:57 PM / 08-Jun-12
i know its all personal, im going for a flush-ish look, but rather the wheel inside the fender then out. so i think ill stick to the s12 lca, if i need more poke then ill swap it out for the s13 :)
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: tenzo on 07:09:52 PM / 10-Mar-13
i havent read all the comments yet so my question is gonna make me look like a complete retard  but will s13 coil-overs fit the s12 directly without replacing the rest of the suspension? again yes i look like a complete retard asking this but i got confused reading just a few post sorry 
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: D-sport S12 on 07:18:02 PM / 10-Mar-13
No,
Read more
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Arro on 11:19:59 PM / 10-Mar-13
lolz.

Answered, like,

EVERYWHERE on this site.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: tenzo on 11:24:18 PM / 10-Mar-13
took a while to read all the posts and i got my answer thanks
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Arro on 11:52:41 PM / 10-Mar-13
You'd be surprised how much info is on this site. Good info, not just guesses.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: tenzo on 12:10:10 AM / 11-Mar-13
You'd be surprised how much info is on this site. Good info, not just guesses.
true i like this site alot but considering i used to drive more mainstream cars  this site is a big help  with tips and ideas and finding parts for my s12 great place 
 
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: nismo_200sx on 02:11:05 PM / 15-Mar-13
ok so i'm finally gonna do the coilover setup. since the guy is banned can you run s13 spindle and hub on stock s12 LCA/BallJoint/Tension Rod/Tie Rod/Swaybar/Brakes? or do you have to get s13 brakes/rotors/lines/etc. I want to know if the factory s12 calipers clear s13 rotors and if the A1 tie rods bolt onto the s13 spindle if you cut the knuckles for angle on stock s12 steering rack.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: I_heart_VVL on 02:37:07 PM / 15-Mar-13
You CAN run an S13 knuckle on an S12 Balljoint but it's not recommended, Darryn on S12Silvia did that in his SR20 live axle drift car. That car was also on cut knuckles IIRC on a stock manual rack and had a ton of angle.

For the tie rods: As long as they haven't messed with the taper on the tie rod pick up any S13 tie rod will work, even the A1s.

I have no clue about the brakes.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: nismo_200sx on 01:22:38 AM / 18-Mar-13
You CAN run an S13 knuckle on an S12 Balljoint but it's not recommended, Darryn on S12Silvia did that in his SR20 live axle drift car. That car was also on cut knuckles IIRC on a stock manual rack and had a ton of angle.
why do you not recommend doing that?
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Arro on 01:29:13 AM / 18-Mar-13
Yes you can use S12 stock control arms, and in fact I would recommend it if you want more reasonable camber.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: I_heart_VVL on 11:26:28 AM / 18-Mar-13
why do you not recommend doing that?

Because balljoint tapers are different, Id want as much contact between the knuckle and balljoint for fear of it snapping one day driving down the highway at 70mph.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: nismo_200sx on 05:06:34 PM / 19-Mar-13
my car will never see the street and it's been running for 2 years lol
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: punkguitarz66 on 12:29:54 AM / 18-Dec-13
Is it just me, or did you forget to update this write up with the how to on the Rears?
car already came with the megan set up in the front but I've been trying to figure out wth they did with the rear and how I can fix it.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: I_heart_VVL on 11:39:31 AM / 21-Dec-13
You just gotta look at it, and figure out some sort of sleeve to get the stock bolt to fit.

Here's what I did for a friend:
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee461/ShakotanS12/D200299A-55D1-4AC7-ADFE-92F9A01637DA_zps2vmixkjc.jpg)
pressed out the stock bushing on the coilover, found some random poly bushings at work, went down the street to the machine shop and he machined a spacer for the bushing to fit into the coilover, and one for the stock shock bolt to fit in. Overkill? Maybe, but for a total cost of $0 nobody is complaining.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: se7en on 09:17:53 PM / 03-Feb-14
Wow, there is a ton of useful and useless info in this thread!

I'm going to do this, but I'm not exactly sure what I need. I have full access to an s13 for parts.

I *think* that I need:

s13 hub and spindle and brakes
s13 inner and outer tie rods
s12 LCA with s13 ball joint???
s12 sway bar???
s13 tension rods and s14 tension rod brackets??

Am I right?
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: spiderwebfx on 10:50:38 PM / 03-Feb-14
Wow, there is a ton of useful and useless info in this thread!

I'm going to do this, but I'm not exactly sure what I need. I have full access to an s13 for parts.

I *think* that I need:

s13 hub and spindle and brakes
s13 inner and outer tie rods
s12 LCA with s13 ball joint???
s12 sway bar???
s13 tension rods and s14 tension rod brackets??

Am I right?
 

As long as you haven't forgotton the coilovers, yup.
Title: Re: How To: S13 Coilovers
Post by: Basic on 02:06:37 PM / 04-Feb-14
Wow, there is a ton of useful and useless info in this thread!

I'm going to do this, but I'm not exactly sure what I need. I have full access to an s13 for parts.

I *think* that I need:

s13 hub and spindle and brakes
s13 inner and outer tie rods
s12 LCA with s13 ball joint???
s12 sway bar???
s13 tension rods and s14 tension rod brackets??

Am I right?

not quite - if you are running the s12 lower control arm w/ s13 balljoints - you need the following:

S13 hub, spindle, brakes
s13 inner tie rods
95 ford escort outer tie rods
s12 LCA + s13 ball joint (FYI - you can use the S13 inner inner LCA bushing on the s12)
coilovers (or strut + DIY coilovers/ground control setup) + top hats.

I just did this this past weekend.  You use the stock tension rod and stock sway bar.

If you want to convert to the s13 LCA (about 10mm longer -> more neg. camber up front) you will need the s13 tension rods + s14 tension rod brackets.

Post Merge
Is it just me, or did you forget to update this write up with the how to on the Rears?
car already came with the megan set up in the front but I've been trying to figure out wth they did with the rear and how I can fix it.

for the rears what I did was get some spring seats (part number SS-85500-A - remember to get the short ones) and some 5x8" springs in whatever rate you want. I am running 375 on the rear at the moment, but can't attest to the ride as I have to get the rear subframe bushings fixed first (got the material today to machine some MMR replica bushings). I'll update when I get a chance to test drive it.