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S12 Technical Areas => Handling Tech => Topic started by: mod_mastaz on 01:40:24 AM / 08-Aug-07

Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 01:40:24 AM / 08-Aug-07
Front suspension
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1379.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1389.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1396.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1384.jpg)
^ A-1 Tie Rod Ends, for using the S13 knuckle with S12 inner tie rod ends.

(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1390.jpg)
My coilover collars are stuck. DAMN RUSTED USED ITAMS!!!111 It should be broken loose tomorrow and hopefully I'll have pictures of it rolling.
[mod edit: use anti-seize]
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1399.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1398.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1397.jpg)

REAR suspension
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1417.jpg)



I'll have more up later.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 12:17:52 AM / 09-Aug-07
Yep, I still need to roll this car out of the garage and get some S14 rims. Those Z32 ones are toooooo wide in the front. I like how the back sits tho haha. I still need an alignment and other things.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:42:05 AM / 10-Aug-07
I think I'm gonna stick with the Z rims. I just gotta go positive camber near the spindle and a 10mm spacer to clear it. The rears look VERY nice. A little too low for my liking but it's not bad. MORE PIX TOMORROW! And I need to get hardware to mount the stock front sway bar.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: EternalSwap on 12:34:48 PM / 10-Aug-07
Positive Camber? You mean negative, right?
Looks awesome man. The Z32 wheels look so beffy under the S12 haha

Good to se you got it setup.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 04:27:59 AM / 11-Aug-07
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1418.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1422.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1429.jpg)
ATE SUPER BLUE!

RAWR I just need an alignment, everything is sooooooo off haha.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 04:58:18 AM / 11-Aug-07
I'll post a list here and I'll do an info thread after this one.

Front suspension
-S13 front control arms(with ES bushing)
-S13 spindles
-S13 tension rods(Stock with ES bushings)
-S14 Tension rod bracket(had to oval out one of the holes)
-S12 stock swaybar(need washers and longer bolt to mount it)
-A1 racing tie rod ends
-Tein HA coilovers
-Ichiba 5-lug conversion hubs
-Q45 calipers/rotors(rebuilt)
-ATE Super blue
-HAwks HPS pads
-Z31 SS lines(all bolt up)

REAR Suspension
-Z31 87-89 vented rear control arms(stock axles bolt up)
-Z31 87-89 vented rear rotors/calipers(rebuilt)
-Hawks HPS for Z31
-Mustang AGX shocks(with washers to keep the mustang agx from moving left/right)
-5x8in length 350in/lb springs(no need to cut the control arms for me!)

Rims
Z32 NA with a 10mm spacer in the front. I just gotta get some stretched tires so I can go 5mm all around(I double-stacked 5MM spacers)

All I need left are Rear subframe/diff mounts, Poly spring seats, Z31 poly bushing set, R200 diff and 5speed swap. Eventually I'll get a CA18DET and rebuilt B trans(since I have a MK1, I'm trying to keep it simple as possible). So far, EVERYTHING bolted up, although the S14 bracket needed some modding.

Thanks for the comment guys. I've just been really focused on the S12, haven't been reading any comments or anything. At first I wanted to dump these Z rims but it just looks so nice now. I still need to source more parts before I get an alignment. I wanna make sure my suspension is done and I don't have to mess with it for a long while.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 07:14:29 PM / 12-Aug-07
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1431.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1432.jpg)
Ride height! LOW!! except on the front haha.

(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1435.jpg)
Tucking rear with vented brakes!
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1433.jpg)
PROOF!

(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1436.jpg)
Front not so low =( but as soon as I get stretched tires and take off a 5mm spacer, it'll match the rear!
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: worr20 on 01:00:28 AM / 15-Aug-07
where did you get the 5x8 inch spring?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 03:50:07 AM / 15-Aug-07
I got it at Pitstopusa.com. I kind of wish I got some 5x9.5" springs instead, cuz my car is WAYYYYY too low. At the time I couldn't find the 5x9.5" spring with the rate I wanted, but it's too late to exchange. All you need to do is find a store that sells performance springs or just find a spring manufacturer. Just look for retailers that stock AFCO or Blue Coil springs. I'm gonna keep trying to find other manufacturers.

Edit: Hypercoil also makes 5" OD springs. These 3 manufacturers have varying spring rates also. anywhere from 300-1500 in/lb springs. Certain lengths only come in certain rates.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: asparagus on 07:34:08 AM / 23-Aug-07
I just got my 900lb 5x8 today and I'm pretty stoked. Hows your rear camber? And did you use stock rubber pads for the perches? I'm thinking about just squeezing in some heater hose at the ends of the springs
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 01:29:08 PM / 23-Aug-07
Damn, that'd be pretty stiff for street driving. My front is 6kg/mm, which is 336in/lbs and my rears are 350 in/lb. I hope these aren't too stiff for street driving and too soft for spirited driving. Let me know how that setup goes. Are any of you guys running the prothane spring seats with these springs? I'm thinking of getting those, but for the price, I'd rather just get a new set of springs and reuse my old rubber one or maybe using a 5" spring perch. I was thinking of welding it to my control arm so I can adjust height/corner weight it, but I might stick to getting springs in the length I want.

My rears are noticeably BAD. Somewhere around -3 to -4 degrees? I am using the stock rubber, well at least what's left of it. I still gotta put in the MMR subframe/diff bushing they sent me.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: worr20 on 09:01:35 PM / 23-Aug-07
woo I did mine!!! PLENTY CAMBA!!!  http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j189/90mr2t/?start=100 (http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j189/90mr2t/?start=100)
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: GriffinW on 07:38:57 PM / 29-Aug-07
Awesome Info man. Where did you find your vented lower control arms from the Z31? Im guessing a junkyard but sometimes people find them elsewhere. I cant find just two front s13 coilovers ANYWHERE, did you get yours from a forum?

Also im thinking about going with a 500-600lb spring in the rear, any one know the stiffness of that range?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: asparagus on 07:52:53 PM / 29-Aug-07
You mean the wider rear lower control arms? They come off of any late model z31. As for coilovers, it's damn hard to find just the front pair. It's usually all or nothing. And what do you mean by "any one know the stiffness of that range?", 500-600lb is..500-600 lbs. Please be more specific, you could also do a lbs/in. to kg/mm conversion on google so you can compare those springs to any japanese/euro spring rates
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 08:19:39 PM / 29-Aug-07
I got my front setup from Nicoclub. My rears were from Z31performance forums. The vented arms are from the 87-89 Z31s.

Oh and new update, I just put in my S13 steering rack bushings on the driver side. The passenger side is too thin and it would make the rack uneven. Anyway, you'll need the S13 driver side steering rack bracket(its the egg shape) and the S13 ES steering rack bushings. It's going to be a tight fit and there will be a small gap when the bushing comes around, but with the S13 bracket, it'll work just perfect and add tension to the bushing. Cheap solution for 10 dollars. =) As for the passenger side, my stock one was still good, but OEM new or delrin would be nice.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: asparagus on 08:25:01 PM / 29-Aug-07
The thing about the stock driver side is that it's already metal, the passenger side however is soft rubber. If anything the passenger side is the one that needs to get upgraded
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 04:15:03 AM / 30-Aug-07
That's true, but my stock driver side was crumbling apart when I replaced it. My steering feels much better now with less free play, although I didn't get to drive it due to it needing an alignment. My passenger side probably won't get replaced because I'm probably going to get a new rack in a few years anyway and it's most likely going to be the S13 one. Or I could just make aluminum S12 mounts since I planned that from the beginning, but that's probably going to be much later in my build.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: GriffinW on 08:32:30 AM / 30-Aug-07
what I meant by stiffnes was would it be a horrible daily driver because the rear end is so stiff.

I have a maxima on tein s-techs and they are bouncy as hell. I definetly want something more stiff for my s12
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 01:14:45 PM / 07-Sep-07
Ok, so I got my MMR subframe/diff bushings in. My stock ones were fine, but I decided to do it anyway. I should have filled it, oh well. I got the subframe out without dropping everything else.  Now here are the pix

(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1438600x400.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1442.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1443.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1444.jpg)

I got my MMR bushings after I sent the incorrect ones back. I'm planning on their passenger side rack bushings next. If that goes bad, I'm done with them haha. For those that want to save money/not deal with MMR, fill the mounts with windo-weld or poly roofing that Asparagus used, and grind the lip off the top to move the subframe closer to the chassis. Another solution would be to get the prothane Z31 bushings and shave it, like Asparagus did. If I didn't get these diff/subframe bushings, I would have filled them.

Here's where to grind, I just figured it out after I got my bushings out hah, but best of luck to those wanting to save money.
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1446.jpg)

It's that little ridge at the top of the bushing, where metal part is.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: asparagus on 01:24:43 PM / 07-Sep-07
Looks great man! I must admit the material used by MMR (which is delrin) is really desirable when you want stiffness, good shit :thumbsup
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: Nikel on 03:41:05 PM / 10-Sep-07
Hello. I wonder if you can fit this control arm on the stock s12 suspension?
its for the s13. Here (http://www.driftworks.com/catalog/products/driftworks-lower-arm-front-s13-s14-s15-r32-r33-r34.html)
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 09:15:35 PM / 10-Sep-07
Yeah. It'll most likely work, but I can't guarantee it. A few years from now I hope to be using the Battle version front control arms, or something similar.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: Ozchuck on 10:33:39 PM / 10-Sep-07
the LCA's wont fit unless you change everything tho convert the car to the S13 suspension.
Please note that in almost any country, the LCA is considered a structural member, and changing the factory item can lead to legal difficulties not seen when you just change castor rods and tie rods etc.

Also if you take the bushings out and go to a 4x4 or truck suspension dude, he will mill you poly replacements on the spot for about $15 each bush, including new crush tubes.
If you ask nicely he will press the old ones out of the arms and put the new ones in for nothing.

One last thing, whats up with you guys going for stiffer springs in the rear than in the front?
I'm sure theres some kind of good reason, but in every well set up car I've ever seen, the stiffer springs are in the front, and the lighter ones in the back.
I'm guessing the idea is to make the car oversteer more, but using the bumps and springs to get some oversteer jut seems weird to me.
comments?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: asparagus on 11:08:04 PM / 10-Sep-07
We need stiffer springs in the rear to compensate for our rear trailing arm design, you can read the discussion in the "final solution" thread in the suspension forum. In the "well set up" cars you've seen, their rear suspension design/geometry is probably very different from our own.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: Ozchuck on 11:42:56 PM / 10-Sep-07
Aaaah, yes, you guys commonly had the IRS version, I keep forgetting...

Normal cars have weaker rear springs, anyway
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 09:00:49 PM / 07-Oct-07
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1454.jpg)
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1455.jpg)

Just got those done this weekend. I just need another set of rear tires once they come in + alignment and it's good to go. I'll take pictures when it's all done. Woot. I can finally drive my car hehe.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 09:17:40 PM / 23-Dec-07
Alright new stuff! GOODIES!
 I have up to 3 inches of height adjustment with these.

For those wondering about going lower than Henry's car(8 inch length spring), you can use  these perches(+/- 3" of adjustment) and the 5x4 springs to go super low. Just don't complain about camber.  

So there you have it, the alternative to MR coils AND I solved the rear end height adjustment problems for the S12s/Z31 guys.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 09:34:43 PM / 23-Dec-07
The only thing I've modified on my car was the S14 tension rod brackets(one hole). My goal is to find parts to make it fit to OEM stuff. That way I'm finding stuff to use with OEM shit, not making OEM shit fit to random parts. I just don't want to cut anything I don't need to.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: JonB on 10:00:19 PM / 23-Dec-07
What size spring are you using in the back with SS-85500, Width, I,D? How long have you been riding on them? Do they keep their adjustment? I like how you found a Dirt track place! I love them they always have cheap solutions to car set up problems. DirtTrack is pretty much the staple of NorthAmerican racing, and to keep it so average joe can compeat stuffs always real cheap.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: Sean1978 on 10:22:09 PM / 23-Dec-07
Can I use that type of spring perch on my solid rear axel?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 01:52:46 AM / 24-Dec-07
My spring is 5 inches wide by 8 inches. I just got these so I don't know about holding the adjustment but it should be fine, it's only moving up and down. They do feel a lot better without the rubber isolators and when I jump on the back, it doesn't give me excessive amounts of movement.

I don't think these will fit the solid rear axle. I want to find someone local to measure it and everything but nobody so far has posted any pictures or measurements for me. I know it's scattered on these boards and I'd have to look around before I can tell you for sure. I want to know what the solid rear axle underbody looks like, as well as the shock mounts, ID and OD of the spring seat etc.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 03:44:16 PM / 24-Dec-07
I got 350 because it's 6kg, and most coilovers run 8/6 rates, so that way I don't have to buy new springs or whatnot if  I adapt S13 coils or anything. My front coils are absolute crap, I kind of regret getting these HAs, but oh well, at least my car is rolling. I'm thinking of S13 Endura-tech coils, or maybe KTS next, but that's gonna be after a long while, since I'm planning a 5-speed and r200 first.

Anyway, for a little review. These Q35/J30 brakes feel freaking awesome. It's super responsive and brakes when I actually want to. I'm too scared to drive econo boxes now since I don't know when it'll actually stop!! hahah. The car itself is pretty nice just driving around. It's just a little stiff, but it's not retarded annoying and I actually like it. The rear end doesn't squat as much since I got rid of those rubber isolators(and back end actually feels responsive even though it's a CA20 LOL). I still need a little more parts here and there but  I think I'll mess with my suspension after I go 5-speed/r200 and CA18DET.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: falkhen on 05:56:05 PM / 25-Dec-07
when you replaced those main bushings allot of your squat was minimized?

considering that those bushing have allot of play to bengine with.

Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 06:04:48 PM / 25-Dec-07
Yeah, those stock spring isolator mounts gave me a LOT of play. Now it feels stiff. Maybe with a real coilover shock it'll feel a lot firmer, but these AGXes are fine for now. I'm not going to complain about them. Hell, I don't think I can complain about squatting with a CA20 anyway, since there isn't enough power to affect it. =P

Honestly, all I'll probably need left for my rear suspension is to make my monoball bushings, adapt S13 coilovers, keep the right height reasonable and I'll be fine. I won't be able to scrape frame rails, but that's fine at the expense of better handling.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: JonB on 08:54:23 PM / 27-Dec-07
I think I'm gonna copy your rear spring set up! The 5" spring sits ok in the chassis side of the car, the top half. The spring has no vertical movement there? I only ask cause I remember the stock springs being pig tail types. Also that lower adjustible spiring seat; It's steel? I could weld it to my suspension arm?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 12:11:41 AM / 28-Dec-07
Yep, it's steel. My friend wanted me to tack it, but I didn't feel it was necessary. The top part doesn't move all crazy as far as I know. I  clipped the dirt on an S turn and jumped the whole right side. I checked it again and everything looks fine. Alignment feels the same. =/ Anyway, I don't think it makes a big deal on the top part, since the arm is at an angle as it travels, a little movement should be fine. I was more worried about the arm side moving around, but that's not a problem anymore. If you go super low, just make sure you get short stroked shocks.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 06:43:42 AM / 01-Jan-08
Oh and if you guys are worried about it moving, get 5" springs with one end pigtailed. I haven't had any issues though, but that's all up to you guys. Just make sure you get the right length shock if you go lower than an 5x8" spring.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: Clowny on 01:59:40 PM / 01-Jan-08
crazy newb question.  will the trailing arms from a 84-86 turbo z31 work too?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:10:35 PM / 01-Jan-08
Yeah they will. Z31/S12 RCA are exactly the same. The only differences(as far as I know) would be the hub(4/5lug, 87-89 hubs are 10mm longer for the vented rotors/brakes) and the brakes(87-89 Z31 rotors are vented).
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: alundra on 05:46:51 PM / 04-Jan-08
Nice pics

Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:54:04 PM / 04-Jan-08
No I don't. I was thinking of buying a coolant line or rubber hose to wrap it, but I figured it wasn't that big of a deal. With my current setup. It's just the chassis on spring on collars.

Edit:
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1822.jpg)
Foxbody AGX vs S12 replacement shock. Sorry it took so long!
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 07:28:13 AM / 17-Jan-08
Alundra, my springs drop in the back too, but not as much. The stock ones were blown so I threw them away before I took pictures of them side by side, but these Mustang AGXs are much shorter, probably by 2 inches(guestimate).

Again, if you want to get 5-lug with the S13 spindle, you need the 5-lug conversion hub, which is what I'm running. They are from Ichiba.  The S12 hubs will not work with the S13 spindle. There are many other conversion hubs out there also. If you want to use your stock S12 strut to keep 5 lug, that'll work. The Z brakes will bolt up to your strut assembly. You're gonna need to convert to the 87-89 Z31 turbo front hubs to use the Z rotors, since the SE's rotors are behind the hub. It's in my sticky for more info.

You can run GC or other perches for height adjustment in the front. I don't see a need to have height adjustment on the S12 strut assembly because I have S13 coilovers. But if there is a lot of demand from the SE guys, I'll find some parts that you guys can use to keep the 5-lug and have height adjustment.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 02:41:49 PM / 02-Feb-08
I've gone touge touge with it a few times and its been alright. The Teins don't seem to be holding up that well but I could care less, because I'm probably going to run Konis all around anyway. I'm going tune and do more suspension shit after I get my motor in. I'm satisfied with it for now so there's no need to mess with it.

If your curious, next on my list would be...

S12 remanufactured steering rack + bushings(figuring out something)
S13 adjustable tension rods
S13 new ball joints
S13 oem strut tube + Koni inserts
Foxbody rear Konis
GC sleeves with my Tein springs/camber plates
Z31 Prothane RCA bushings
Poly swaybar bushings/endlinks(maybe Z store adjustable ones)
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: suicide.veteran on 01:50:08 PM / 03-Feb-08
quick question are the Day Motor Sports prices per spring and per adjustible seat?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: falkhen on 02:02:58 PM / 03-Feb-08
yes there per item...

expect to pay item price X 2
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: suicide.veteran on 02:14:15 PM / 03-Feb-08
cool beans.  Anyone ever try the s13 DIY coilovers for the front?  It's on the 240sx.org 240sx installation page.  Wasnt the main problem with 240 fronts is that the springs were too big, because this requires you to grind it down and remove the lower seat.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:49:04 PM / 03-Feb-08
The S13 front springs ARE too big. I'm going to run a Ground Control setup + Konis. If I were to just use OEM or lowering S13 springs, it wouldn't even fit into the strut tower. The only thing I need to find out is if the S13 struts are too long or too short for me to use them on an S12. I'll figure that out later though. I should have just sourced out V6 front struts and just run GC/Konis hahh. Too late to go back now. >_<


Edit: suicide.veteran - Nice find. I remember looking through there a long time ago but never seeing that. That'll probably work for an S12 also when slightly modified. Then again, there are GCs already so it might not even be necessary.

Edit 2: I forgot to mention, if you go GC with S13 front struts, you would most likely have to grind off most of the stock lower spring seats and leave some room for the GC to sit on. I'm not entirely sure at this point as I have not yet gotten a hold of S13 OEM struts. If someone is doing this, test fit before cutting!
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: suicide.veteran on 12:36:03 AM / 04-Feb-08
what i was thinking was like a GC setup, where the perch is kept, but ground down (I love cutting stuff up =D).  

3 reasons I dont want to go GC is because you cant get just fronts, and the price, and the locking perches use a hex set screw.

Here is what I was thinking.  S13 kyb AGX or other adjustible struts (maybe even stock for now) with the perches ground down.  camber plates.  Ebay coilover kit for the perches0, tops, and sleeves.  2.5x8 inch 450lb springs.  All for maybe 300ish not shopping wisely.  Plus the satisfaction that I did it myself =).
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 11:40:19 AM / 04-Feb-08
Ah that sounds good, but if you email or call GC they can sell you just the front set I believe. I'm going to call them and ask when the time comes. Also, the locking screw doesn't thread into the sleeve, it's used to clamp the sleeve so it locks. The screw tightens the collar cuz it's a C shape. It doesn't chew into the threads at all.  Let me know what you are thinking though cuz I wanna see this stuff.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: suicide.veteran on 02:28:53 PM / 04-Feb-08
yeah im gonna try and piece something together after I get a paycheck friday.

I did email GC and was told that they dont break up kits tho..... So maybe I was lied too.  If thats the case then that was kinda ghey.  LMK if you can get a quote on a half set.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: falkhen on 02:36:07 PM / 04-Feb-08
if you going to do the cheap way out..

Ebay coil over sleave kit with s13 or s14 rear struts/shocks
there have spring perchs..



that will cost about $40 to $80 for sleave-overs and about $45(each) or so for the new S13/S14 struts/shocks for the rear.
so $90+$40= $130... plus tax were applicable.
and thats cheap.

i don't know how well you junk will ride doing this.. but that would be the cheapest way to do it.


Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: gerrybg on 06:00:33 PM / 04-Feb-08
[Moderator edit:  This was done in Australia where S13 parts aren't as common.  Gerry used S12 style strut assemblies, as opposed to the separate S13 kuckle and strut assembly.  He has sourced parts from all over the world.]
-----------------------------

Just adding to the V6 strut, coilover conversion ideas here.

I've finally got my diy coilovers sorted and now are good with no bottoming out, (this is the main problem you get with these DIY coilover setups on s12 style struts, as when you wind them down to a nice low height you are aslmost on the bump stops and they bottom out like a muther, (I mean dangerous as hell), on even small humps and bumps. So you need to shorten the struts and run shorter inserts.

I used inserts for the front of an MR2 (SW20), for my Skyline R31 Jap spec turbo struts, (same as s12 V6 ones, but not sure if exactly the same length, so don't take my length measurements as exact for s12 V6 struts, could be 5 or 10mm difference).

I had a 30mm section cut out of the strut just below the gland nut thread area and then they welded them back together, (must be here as the MR2 struts are a tight fit and in this area the inner diameter of the strut tube is a bit wider), any lower and they might not slide in after welding. I cut the spacer thing off the bottom of the MR2 inserts. Oh I also had to file the bead weld down a bit, (smooth it down) around the inserts with a hand file, (that's how tight a fit they are!).
I also used s13 camber tops, this gave me an extra 30mm of travel, (standard s12 tops are 30mm thicker/longer than the camber tops).

So I gained 60mm all up.

It rides great now with no bottoming out at all and nice and firm ride without being to bouncy.

Parts I used were:

GC style threaded sleeves.

178mm (7") 65mm ID (2.5") Swift 7Kg springs

80mm tender spring

Genesis spring separator

T3 roller bearing coilover spring tops

HKS S13 camber tops

MR2 SW20 KYB AGX front inserts, (yeah koni yellows would be the best but I'm a tight arse and the KYB's are giving a good ride on full firm setting).

The T3 spring tops, genesis spring separator, AGX inserts and coilover sleeves were bought new, everything else was sourced s/hand as I'm a tight bastard as I said.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 06:02:41 PM / 04-Feb-08
The ebay kit will probably work fine if you have your own springs(in my case I do). Those springs are probably junk(too soft). You can't really go wrong making sleeves and perches though. I guess for the price I could just buy some name brand sleeves and collars. I'll just use my spring perch and camber plates.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:11:22 AM / 28-Feb-08
On a side note, I have been looking into SRA rear ride height adjustment but haven't gotten replies from anyone with accurate measurements of their teardrop and strut mount spacing. =( I found a blurry picture with a tape measurement on the teardrop, but it's kinda hard to tell if these spring spacers will work. I do think 5" sleeves will fit there though. As for SRA shocks, still no measurements at all, the SRA mount or shock length.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: DatsmO on 05:32:45 PM / 04-Mar-08
wow this really helps me do my s13 swap. thanks alot. do you need to do the 5 lug swap?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 12:36:17 AM / 05-Mar-08
Nah. I did it because the Z31 rear arms gave me 5 lug and I decided to do it for the fronts also. For the Q45/J30 rotors, just redrill it to 4-lug if you need.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: nismologist on 01:28:22 AM / 05-Mar-08
so when im swapping s13 fronts into a vg,what would be the big fab part of it?does it bolt into my existing tower?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: mod_mastaz on 10:38:05 AM / 05-Mar-08
The S13 conversion to any s12, SE/turbo/base is all the same. Although certain parts might conflict depending on your setup. I don't know what you're going to use so I can't help you there. PM me if you need more info.
For the full conversion:
The only fab you'll have is slotting the S14 tension rod bracket and 2 longer bolts and a few washers to mount the S12 swaybar on the S14 tension rod bracket.
For just the knuckle/struts:
You'll just have to get S13 ball joints to match the knuckle. All you do is press the S13 ball joint into the S12 arm. Everything else stays the same.

And yes, the S13 struts mounts will bolt up to the S12 just fine.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: Jackalope on 11:07:27 AM / 12-May-08
where did you buy your s14 tension rod brackets??
anyone that knows please answer.
the brackets and brake lines are all i need till i have everything for the swap
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: TalkingGoats on 11:35:48 AM / 12-May-08
Junkyards, and part-out classifieds
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: 200sxkitcar on 12:32:02 AM / 10-Jan-09
Overhauled this thread, cleaned it up a bit so its more info-friendly.  Please, if you have questions about this setup, copy and paste whatever info you are questioning, and start a new thread.  This one can be updated if it needs to be as a result.  Thanks!
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: DriftHappy on 11:44:03 PM / 02-Feb-09
Quote from: gerrybg
[Moderator edit:  This was done in Australia where S13 parts aren't as common.  Gerry used S12 style strut assemblies, as opposed to the separate S13 kuckle and strut assembly.  He has sourced parts from all over the world.]
-----------------------------

I had a 30mm section cut out of the strut just below the gland nut thread area and then they welded them back together, (must be here as the MR2 struts are a tight fit and in this area the inner diameter of the strut tube is a bit wider), any lower and they might not slide in after welding. I cut the spacer thing off the bottom of the MR2 inserts. Oh I also had to file the bead weld down a bit, (smooth it down) around the inserts with a hand file, (that's how tight a fit they are!).
I also used s13 camber tops, this gave me an extra 30mm of travel, (standard s12 tops are 30mm thicker/longer than the camber tops).

Does anyone have any pics or tips on doing this? I have never disassembled a shock and am a little afraid of buying new shocks and doing this without knowing what I am getting myself into first.

Thanks,
Anthony
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: 200sxkitcar on 02:35:41 AM / 03-Feb-09
yeah, I do.  Go to my build thread, first page.  click on the link for my build-specific photobucket.  go under Suspension.  There you will see all the pics I've taken of my assembly, some of which have not yet been posted up on here, but the info is there in the pics.  ask questions if necessary
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: DriftHappy on 08:22:31 AM / 03-Feb-09
Thank you so much!!!

I found the pics and have a much better understanding now. For some reason I was thinking that the cartridge itself had to be disassembled and shortened. I am releaved to realize it is just the strut housing. I'm going to try to tackle it next weekend.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: KDL323 on 08:54:25 PM / 19-Mar-09
i was wondering, would this rear set up work for the front?



Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: bartc_j on 10:19:17 PM / 19-Mar-09
not it wont as the rear shock has a very small piston diameter.. the front is thcik because most of the side loads are transffered into the piston shaft.. if you have the rears up front the front would calapse under cornering
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: KDL323 on 07:14:25 PM / 20-Mar-09
i cant get a different spring to use with the washer that Mod_Mastaz used?


like a spring to justify the front?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: KDL323 on 10:29:15 PM / 25-Mar-09
what if i piece together the EBAY kit?


and just get a QA1 spring?
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: seb.racing on 11:26:38 AM / 16-Apr-09
hello, you could tell me, or you buy the tie rod A-1?? thank you

@ + + +  


(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x167/mod_s12/100_1384.jpg)
^ A-1 Tie Rod Ends, for using the S13 knuckle with S12 inner tie rod ends.
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: DjayS12 on 01:00:43 PM / 16-Apr-09
I had a set of these, and bent both of them in the first month. Personnally I will stay away from these.
/
J'en ai eu une paire, et je les ai tordu durant le premier mois. Si j'était toi je resterais loin de ces tie-rod.

You can always get a 1cm shortened inner S13 tie-rod and an S13 outer tie rod!
/
La meilleure solution à mon avis est d'avoir des tie-rods intérieurs de S13 raccourci de 1cm (sur la section fileté pour la tie rod extérieur) et des tie-rods extérieur de S13!
Title: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: seb.racing on 06:01:51 PM / 16-Apr-09
Quote from: bigjer
I had a set of these, and bent both of them in the first month. Personnally I will stay away from these.
/
J'en ai eu une paire, et je les ai tordu durant le premier mois. Si j'était toi je resterais loin de ces tie-rod.

You can always get a 1cm shortened inner S13 tie-rod and an S13 outer tie rod!
/
La meilleure solution à mon avis est d'avoir des tie-rods intérieurs de S13 raccourci de 1cm (sur la section fileté pour la tie rod extérieur) et des tie-rods extérieur de S13!

raccoursir de 1cm et souder, j'ai pas confiance

tu me déconseille les tie-rod A-1?

shortened of 1cm and welding, I have no confidence

you advise not buy the tie-rod A-1?
Title: Re: Mod_Mastaz Master Suspension Build Thread
Post by: Fernandoz on 04:15:45 PM / 03-Dec-15
Would this fit?

http://speed-daddy.com/suspension/coilovers/89-98-nissan-240sx-silvia-s13-s14-adjustable-black-coilover-red-lowering-springs