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S12 Technical Areas => Handling Tech => Topic started by: mod_mastaz on 01:48:15 PM / 12-Aug-07

Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 01:48:15 PM / 12-Aug-07
This is a basic outline for those looking for suspension info on various setups.
Please read this carefully. If you have questions, Please copy what you have questions on, start a new thread, paste, and ask your questions there.  [thanks, moderators]


***The "///" denotes the alternative, meaning OR.***

If you want to stick to S12 suspension parts:

There are SSC/Canuck lowering/performance springs available for STOCK S12s. See http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=7848 (http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=7848)   for more details.  For shocks/struts to use with these springs, look further down in the Shock/Strut part of this post.

Those not wanting the S13 front conversion but still yearning for coilovers, you can use Ground Control front components and MR2 (SW20) struts with the stock S12 strut tubes. For details on the MR2 shocks, see the Shock/Strut part of this post.  There are universal collars/perches available that will work if you don't like GC. I would recommend running a progressive spring or main spring/helper spring combo but just a main spring will be fine.  For the rear coilover setup, look here, page 2: http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=18579 (http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=18579)


If you want S13 coilovers, you have a few options:

Option 1:
S12 Setup
 -S13 balljoint
 -S13 spindle
 -S13 5-lug conversion hub /// -stock S13 4-lugs
 -S13 Brake caliper hoses (Optional, but recommended as the S12 hoses stretch a little tight)
 -S12 stock control arm/tension rods
 -S13 tie rods, and 1995 ford escort tie rod ends /// S12 tie rods, A1 tie rod ends (http://shop.a1racing.com/dgt100.aspx)
 
Option 2:
s12-S13 hybrid
 -S13 balljoint
 -S13 spindle
 -S13 5-lug conversion /// -stock S13 4-lugs
 -S13 Brake caliper hoses (Optional, but recommended as the S12 hoses stretch a little tight)
 -S12 stock control arm
 -S13 tie rods, and 1995 ford escort tie rod ends /// S12 tie rods, A1 tie rod ends (http://shop.a1racing.com/dgt100.aspx)

Option 3:
s12-S14 hybrid
   -S14 balljoint
   -S14 spindle
   -S14 SE hubs(5-lug) /// -s14 non SE 4-lugs
   -S14 Brake caliper hoses
   -S12 stock control arm

Option 4:
S13 setup
   -s13 control arm
   -s13 spindle
   -s13 Brake caliper hoses
   -s13 5-lug conversion hub  /// -stock S13 4-lug

Option 5:

S14 setup
   -S14 control arm
   -S14 SE spindle/hub(SE S14s are 5lug) /// -S14 non-SE 4-lugs
   -S14 spindle spacer(with S13 strut bolts) /// -drill out S13 coilovers to use accomodate larger S14 spindle
                 bolts

Option 6:

S13/14 hybrid
  -S13 control arm
  -S14 balljoint
  -S14 SE spindle/hubs  /// -S14 non-SE 4-lugs
  -S14 spindle spacers(with S13 strut bolts) /// -drilled s13 coils.

If you use S14 front spindles, might as well use S14 coilovers, if you can source it. If not, use S13 coilovers and mix and match S13/14 stuff for 5 lugs. You cannot use any S14 hubs(4/5-lug) on S13 spindles. S13 hubs go to S13 spindles and S14 hubs go to S14 spindles.


Megan Racing S12 SPECIFIC Coilover Kit
 
Technically, its not 100% for an S12- you NEED to do the S13 front conversion, as detailed above.  The Megan kit is essentially a normal S13 Megan kit that has been modified in the rear for our suspension, but otherwise the S13 knuckle/spindle will need to be installed, as detailed in Options 1, 2, and 4.  This is the easiest and most convenient way to go if you are planning S13 front conversion. You can also adapt S13 rear coilover shocks to run a full S13 coilover set of your choice. You can use my rear suspension setup for ride height adjustment or just a spring length of your choice.  Check Megan's website for the pics/details of the kit.


****OTHER REQUIRED ITEMS**** YOU ALSO NEED THESE TO CONVERT!!
-S14 tension rod brackets(you'll need to slot out a hole to fit the S12 chassis)
-S13 tension rods(stock/aftermarket)
-A1 racing tie rod ends OR S13/s14 tie rod inner/outers combo, respectively.
-S13/S14 sway bar with endlinks/mounts /// -S12 swaybar with washers and two longer tension rod bolts(one for each side)




--------------------------------------------------------------

Brake Upgrades

Brake upgrade for 5-lug with STOCK S12 suspension

- S12 MK2 SE V6 struts/springs

- Z31 87-89 turbo front hubs(for slip on rotors) and wheel bearing
- Z31 87-89 turbo front rotors
- Z31 87-89 turbo front calipers
- Z31/S12/S13 lines, SS or rubber

Alternative brakes for the SE V6 WITH Z31 hubs for slip on rotors
- S13/s14/q45/j30/z32 front Calipers
- matching rotors
- Z31/S13/stock brake lines /// -S13-Z32 front conversion lines for Z32 calipers
- washer to space calipers out .170" to center the caliper to rotors


Brake info for S13/s14 front conversion(this applies AFTER you have converted)
If you use the Z32 4pots, you will need a Z32 master cylinder -and- Z32 front brake conversion lines for an S13. The z32 piston diameter is 1" or 1 1/16". If the stock S12 master cylinder size says 15/16" on it(most are), then the Q45/J30 brakes will work fine. As for brake lines, stock S13 lines will bolt up to q45/j30 calipers. You can get Z31 SS lines (ebay ones don't hold up too well) and they will bolt right up to the front and rears(make sure it is 6 pieces, 2 front 4 rears).

For the stock SE V6ers, they can run Z31 SS lines all around.

Brake option #1:

Z32 Front brakes
- Z32 Master cylinder 1" or 1 1/16"(15/16" is fine but will give a slightly mushier pedal feel)
- S13 Z32 front brake conversion line
- Z32 rotors(matching calipers)
- IF 4-LUG! --- Redrill rotors

Brake option #2:

S13/S14 calipers
- S13 master cylinder 15/16"(if stock is 15/16" not required)
- S12/S13/S14/Z31 front lines(stock rubber or SS)
- S13 rotors for 4lug /// -S14 SE rotors for 5 lug

Brake option #3:

Q45(90-96)/J30(93-97?, recheck before ordering) front calipers
- S13 master cylinder 15/16"(if stock is 15/16" not required)
- S12/S13/S14/Z31 front lines(stock or SS)
- Q45(90-96) /// J30(93-97) front Calipers
- Q45/j30 rotors
- IF 4-LUG! --- Redrill rotors



----------------------------------------------------------------------

** Z31 Rear ** Conversion

+++Z31 vented REAR brake swap
- Z31 87-89(na/t) rear control arms
- Z31 87-89 axles(my stock 6-bolt s12[r180] axles bolt up to Z31 arms, R200 axles should too.)
- Z31 87-89 calipers/rotors
- Z31 SS/stock lines(2 front, 4 rear)
+++Try to get this as a set, it'll make your life EASIER!

Ok Some background info. Before everyone though that Z31 87-89 arms and S12/Z31 84-86 arms were identical except the hubs. WRONG. The actual Z31 87-89 arm is different. It has been confirmed by 200sxkit car that the rear arms are infact different. The mount for the hubs are pushed out 10mm to accommodate for the taller vented rotors. The rear hubs used among the 84-89 Z31s are probably all the same. So if you want vented brakes on the rears, BUT wish to retain 4 lug, get your rear 4-lug hubs and swap them over to the 87-89 Z31 rear arm. Then redrill your Z31 vented rotors to fit on your 4-lug hubs. DONE!  Obviously, if you want 5 lug, just get the 87-89 Z31 arms, and bolt them on, no hub swapping needed.

If you find a way to get 87-89 Z31 vented rear rotors on stock S12/84-86 Z31 arms, please let me know. I have an idea, listed below...

Z31 vented brake info/tech:
!!USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!
My theory to run the vented brake rotors/calipers on an S12/Z31(84-86) RCA is to get a hubcentric 10mm spacer(that fits inside the vented brake rotors and centers it) to space the rotor out 10MM and the vented brake calipers should bolt up to the S12/Z31 84-86 arm. If you're 4-lug, just redrill the vented rotors to 4-lug.
!!THIS IS NOT CONFIRMED, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!! If you have tried this and it does work, please let me know and post me some pictures so I can make sure. Thanks!



--------------------------------------------------

SHOCKS/STRUTS

I recommended to run all four of the same shocks because they are valved similarly. If you run Illuminas in the front and Konis in the rear, the Konis are going to have much better dampening characterstics so the rear is going to be much more stable over bumps. The car itself is going to be upset when going over bumps because the fronts won't react the same as the rears. It's not about how it FEELS, but how the car actually reacts. Remember that these adjustments are rebound and NOT bound. When you adjust the knob, you're actually adjusting how it reacts to the bumps in the road. Think of it this way, bound prevents the spring from compressing and rebound prevents the spring from expanding. Bound is what makes a car feel JDM super rock hard solid. However you want the car to feel is all preference. Whether you actually gain some sort of performance enhancement* is another story.

*I meant this in a sense of actual faster lap times and/or faster speeds through a corner. This really all depends on what YOU want the car to do. A drag race setup is not the same as a road course setup. Same applies for drifting/street driving/etc.

That said...
For stock S12 front suspension...


- 280zx shocks in the front, Z31 in the rear is the general setup.  BUT that only limits you to Tokico Illuminas because there are no KONI Yellows or KYB AGX for that COMBO (there are KONI Z31s but no Koni 280zx, AGX neither.) 

- The next thing to do now is to run SW20 MR2 rear shocks (in the front S12 strut tube, according to Gerrybg) and Foxbody Mustang rears (in the rear of the S12). Then you'd have a selection of KONI and AGX shocks available.
 
- Using SW20 MR2 front strut inserts in the front will require sectioning the strut tube but in return you get a shorter shock/stroke for the super lowered cars(good with GC/sleeve setup).  Less chance of hitting the bumpstops this way.  Foxbody Mustangs also have a shorter stroke and shock so that helps on lowered cars too.  One more thing, if you go Konis, run all 4 Konis, same applies to the AGXes.

- For the info on using the MR2 front strut insert and shortening the housing, check my suspension thread linked below and look on page 3, Gerrybg details the situation.


----------------------------------------------

My Suspension Thread:
Here is the link to my suspension thread.  http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=18579 (http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=18579)  I will update it every so often when I get more money and more parts. I have the rear suspension height-adjustment on page 2. If the solid axle guys want rear height adjustment, then I'm going to need specific information and pictures. Just contact me if you're willing to help out and experiment.


Will update as info becomes available.

If there is any missing info or errors, let me know and I'll correct it. I hope this clears up A LOT of brake info. Lastly, I'm not responsible for any errors this contains, whether it be parts not bolting up or requiring more parts. My Front and rear suspension setup bolted up fine, it might not be the same for you. You need to do your own research before buying anything. Use this guide at your own risk.

-mod_mastaz

Update 01-21-09
Sorry guys I haven't updated this in a while. Thanks to Sterling for cleaning this up for me too. Anyway, I forgot to mention that you can run Z31 front inserts into the S12 strut tube also. I don't know if it was the turbo or na shock that fits, because one was 10mm larger in diameter than the other. Anyway with that said, you can run all 4 Konis and Canuck springs or whichever in your stock S12 setup and be on your merry way.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: seishuku on 09:25:28 PM / 13-Aug-07
Was your unlisted idea to use 4 lug rear spindles with the Z31 rear arms for the vented rear discs? If so, then yes, you can swap in the 4 lug spindles, drill the rotors, and still use the Z31 control arm.

The spindle shafts are all the same size for 84-88 IRS S12's, and for all 84-88 Z31's (turbo or otherwise). The only part different is the CV shaft companion flange that bolts to the spindle.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 11:26:34 PM / 13-Aug-07
I was thinking of using the vented rear calipers and rotors on a regular non vented 84-86 Z31//S12 rear arm. Not sure it it'll work, cuz I didn't want to figure it out. I just put my stuff on and I was done with. Maybe someone could experiment with my idea or something.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: gadget1382 on 11:30:41 PM / 19-Aug-07
Just want to add... if doing the TRX series 3 rear disk brake upgrade for/from the solid axle drums, you need to also upgrade the master cylinder. To either stock all disk S12 , non ABS S13 or S14/15.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 03:11:23 AM / 20-Aug-07
About the solid rear axle, I don't know because I haven't seen it or have been able to measure/compare parts. I would just take a guess at the AE86 rear struts or something. Measure the spring diameter or the spring seat/perch diameter and you'll probably be able to find springs in  those sizes.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Radracer_S on 04:58:58 PM / 24-Aug-07
They won't work though. I checked.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:39:36 PM / 24-Aug-07
Hrm... If you have any pictures of the rear axle, post some here please. I wanna see where the shock is bolted to subframe and the chassis. Measure the width of the bottom part of the strut too. How wide is the spring perch/seat anyway? The chassis and the subframe perch I mean. Pictures here would help too.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: TurboPower on 09:27:53 AM / 23-Nov-07
So lets see, to get the megan coilovers to work at the front this is all i need?

++S13 setup
-s13 control arm
-s13 spindle
-s13 5-lug conversion hub or -stock s13 4-lug hub

OR

-s13 balljoint (to press into S12 control arm)
-s13 spindle
-s13 5-lug conversion hub or -stock s13 4-lug hub

Did i get it?

[moderator edit:  Yes]
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Julie on 09:58:09 AM / 23-Nov-07
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/juliebriggs/S12s/Picture007.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/juliebriggs/S12s/Picture008.jpg)

Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 04:00:44 PM / 27-Nov-07
Thanks Julie. Do you have pix of the strut mount for the solid axle? And  does anyone happen to know the spring's inner diameter and uncompressed length?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 12:19:51 AM / 04-Jan-08
There has been a few solid axle people for rear ride height adjustment. Ground Control custom makes these, check the product advertisements section on this forum for the info.  if not I'll figure out something when I can get all the information I need.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Sean1978 on 08:45:42 PM / 14-Jan-08
(http://a955.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/69/l_91ffe6f6fbbfd79cd1aef3b9970ee63a.jpg)
(http://a488.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/105/l_472a01d61db5b97f5e00f91f8a4f0f8f.jpg)
(http://a994.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/45/l_645fa21c7ba32b016b7cddfa59a99259.jpg)
(http://a425.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/110/l_e1c43fea200ac9b00a7f7b9ec489d370.jpg)
(http://a938.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/68/l_9ceb862402e86827ef4ff90c494d29e1.jpg)
(http://a747.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/69/l_1295258675df9b1e74d4c6c10e60d7e2.jpg)
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: frosti108 on 10:37:01 PM / 21-Feb-08
hey im not yet too experienced with chassis modifications and tuning...

i have stock SE V6, 5 lug, full discs... what should i be looking to upgrade with? i wanna keep the stock 5 lug... brakes are cool for now too. i really just want to (as simply as possible) lower stiffen and stabilize this old loose chassis. so what parts should i be looking for and from what cars? thanks a million

btw i have a full set of stock s13 struts layin around. not sure if they would be any help... also ill probly be taking some other chassis components out of my s13 soon to replace with aftermarket so im not sure if stock s13 stuff would be upgrades for the s12 or not...?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 12:51:04 AM / 22-Feb-08
If you're looking for something basic, just run Canuck springs and Tokico Illuminas shocks/struts, 280zx front and Z31 rears. Or you can run AGX MR2 rear strut inserts(in the front) and AGX Foxbody shocks in the rears(you'd have to look more into the front setup because I'm not EXACTLY 100%). Just remember to use your S12 rear mounting hardware if you use Z31 Illuminas. Poly bushing kit for a Z31 and also poly filling your diff mount. Addco sways bars are also available. That's pretty much the gist of it. If there is anything more then you'd have to search around. PM if you need some extra info on the S13 swap AFTER you have read the first post. Thanks!
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Doug on 04:29:40 PM / 22-Feb-08
to use q45 or j30 calipers can you use s13 spindles and hubs with that?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: frosti108 on 06:21:54 PM / 22-Feb-08
Canuck springs? what are they and where would i get them lol. So you're saying to get illuminas for a 280zx for the front, and illuminas for z31 in the rear. right?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 06:31:03 PM / 22-Feb-08
Doug, to use the q45/j30 calipers, you would need to do the S13 conversion. You have a choice of doing the FULL conversion, or just using the s13 coilover/spindle/balljoint.

Frosti, Canuck springs are lowering springs for S12s. Tokicos Illuminas are shocks. You would use the shocks from the front of a 280zx and 300zx rear(z31).

http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=7848 (http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=7848)
For the springs. You'd have to find your shop for the shocks.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Jom on 05:00:19 AM / 24-Apr-08
agx's are hella too soft (imo)
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: TalkingGoats on 05:34:34 AM / 24-Apr-08
Front or rear?

What are your spring rates?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Jom on 05:36:39 AM / 24-Apr-08
Quote from: DeathAndMajesty
Front or rear?

What are your spring rates?

ssc springs

rear mustang agx's

the 280zx illuminas up front feel much better than the agx's in the rear

im planning on just getting koni's in the rear since i hear even on koni's lowest setting they're comparable to other shocks stiffest settings
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: TalkingGoats on 08:14:52 AM / 24-Apr-08
Honestly if the shocks up front are significantly softer, the rear will feel sloppy. Does the ass end feel floaty over rough pavement?


SSC might not be enough drop for the mustang rears.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 02:39:41 PM / 29-Apr-08
I recommended to run all four of the same shocks because they are valved similarly. If you run Illuminas in the front and Konis in the rear, the Konis are going to have much better dampening characterstics so the rear is going to be much more stable over bumps. The car itself is going to be upset when going over bumps because the fronts won't react the same as the rears. It's not about how it FEELS, but how the car actually reacts. Remember that these adjustments are rebound and NOT bound. When you adjust the knob, you're actually adjusting how it reacts to the bumps in the road. Think of it this way, bound prevents the spring from compressing and rebound prevents the spring from expanding. Bound is what makes a car feel JDM super rock hard solid. However you want the car to feel is all preference. Whether you actually gain some sort of performance enhancement* is another story.

*I meant this in a sense of actual faster lap times and/or faster speeds through a corner. This really all depends on what YOU want the car to do. A drag race setup is not the same as a road course setup. Same applies for drifting/street driving/etc.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: demonic s12 on 12:41:48 AM / 22-Jul-08
mx73 cressida rear springs are a direct fit, thus ae86 springs do as well....

im unsure of spring rates and such, just thought id let you guys know its confirmed, not on height though

This is for IRS models.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mc on 11:16:25 AM / 19-Oct-08
...what would be the easiest place to find the .170" spacer??..anyone have a pix of the spacer??...i'd like to try a q45 or j30 front brake conversion on my 88 SE as those are easy to find in the yards...THX,MIKE
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:48:51 PM / 19-Oct-08
Just bring a vernier caliper with you to measure the washers you're going to buy. A hardware store should have different thicknesses and sizes for you. Make sure you get the highest grade you can find. I got this info off RedZ31's site so you can find more info there. He just used a washer too I believe.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: SkS12 on 06:37:22 PM / 03-Feb-09
After installing my front megan coilovers i TRULY know what you must do to get them installed. I consider myself more than lucky to acquire a whole front subframe/suspension from a good friends parts s13 for the price of a case of beer.

s13 tie rods inners/outers(s12 are too short)
s13 spindle(for the coilover to mount properly)
s13 brake lines(s12 have the block fitting rather than threaded)
S13 rotors(to acompany s12 calipers)
S13 calipers(s12 wont bolt up to s13 spindles)
s13/longer sway bar endlinks i will also be using an s13 sway bar and moounts because the s12 bar with s12 endlinks gets way to close to the tension rod and will most likely make contact when the suspension is compressed


(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2825/dsc00224ed7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us) s12 caliper shown against s13 spindle.

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6575/dsc00229qx1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us) s13 seen left s12 right difference can be seen in mounting size as well as the brake line difference
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismologist on 06:44:51 PM / 03-Feb-09
i have a v6.arent the q 45/z32/and j30 front calipers bolt on?thats what i was under the impression of.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: SkS12 on 07:01:14 PM / 03-Feb-09
i added some pictures check it out
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismologist on 07:20:12 PM / 03-Feb-09
i would assume naturally the q45(being the v8 beast it is) does not have the same size caliper as a s13.and more than likely will fit.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: wag86 on 05:24:40 AM / 05-Feb-09
what is the bolt spacing on the caliper? if its 100mm on the hub/ axle you could use the 4 piston nissan skyline ?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 05:51:10 AM / 05-Feb-09
Yes, you can run Z32 brakes on the S13 spindle.

For the V6 strut tubes, you'll need to get Z31 88-89 turbo front hubs and Q45 rotors/calipers for it to work. The stock V6 rotors are behind the hub and bolting on just the q45 calipers won't work.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: SkS12 on 04:37:56 PM / 05-Feb-09
im using s13 spindles as you can see because i have s13 front coilovers oem brakes will not fit on the s13 spidnles
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Maxpow on 12:23:41 PM / 26-Jun-09
So a stock SE can take non turbo rotors from a 87 z31 correct? Front and back?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: kyskater on 02:16:01 PM / 08-Jul-09
Brake upgrade for 5-lug with STOCK S12 suspension
- S12 MK2 SE V6 struts/springs

- Z31 87-89 turbo front hubs(for slip on rotors) and wheel bearing
- Z31 87-89 turbo front rotors
- Z31 87-89 turbo front calipers
- Z31/S12/S13 lines, SS or rubber

Alternative brakes for the SE V6 WITH Z31 hubs for slip on rotors
- S13/s14/q45/j30/z32 front Calipers
- matching rotors
- Z31/S13/stock brake lines /// -S13-Z32 front conversion lines for Z32 calipers
- washer to space calipers out .170" to center the caliper to rotors

Could i use a 4 lug z31 hub and still run j30 calipers?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 03:53:31 AM / 09-Jul-09
No. You need the V6 strut tube first off to use the calipers, then you need M30 front hubs for 4lug slip on J30 rotors. The Z31 hubs are in front of the rotor and the S12 4 cylinder strut tubes have the wrong spacing for the newer style calipers.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: kyskater on 09:50:12 PM / 09-Jul-09
awsome thanks for the help
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Maxpow on 07:37:44 PM / 16-Jul-09
I've run into an issue with the 87 Z31 brakes I'm trying to install, finally got them on the front but I realized that in the rear its impossible to use them as the metal piece (not the caliper) that goes around the rotor doesn't clear the vented rotors (my stock rotors are not vented I've come to find . So would using the rear calipers and I guess I'll call them caliper brakets from a 87 Z31 solve this problem?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 04:24:56 PM / 17-Jul-09
Maxpow, I'm assuming this is your setup.

Z31 front brakes on SE tubes. Remember to swap to the Z31 rotors too if you haven't already.

The rears, Z31 vented rotors on stock calipers and stock control arms. THIS WILL NOT WORK. You need need the entire arm for this setup to work, cuz you're gonna be doing more work trying to convert it.

If you can't get the arms, then you're going to need:
Z31 vented dust shield(you can go without this, just remove your old one)
Z31 87-89 vented rear calipers
2x 10mm hubcentric spacers for the ROTOR(NOT TYPICAL WHEEL SPACER. It will need to be custom machined! You have to measure the ID of the rotor and the OD of the hub where the rotor seats to) This will push the vented rotor out 10mm because the Z31 arms have the hubs pushed outward to clear the caliper bracket.


I don't know what else you're missing, but it seems like you only got the rotor, which isn't anywhere close to a rear brake upgrade. I need more info on your setup before I can help you. The above list is just a general list, you might need more specific parts. Honestly, if you can go without the rear brake upgrade, I'd recommend not to upgrade because it doesn't make that much of a difference for the work you're going to have to put in.

And so you know, I haven't done this conversion. I just swapped my entire arm to the Z31 vented brakes. You're going to need to do some measuring on your part to make sure you can get it to work.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Maxpow on 11:47:47 PM / 17-Jul-09
Quote from: mod_mastaz
Maxpow, I'm assuming this is your setup.

Z31 front brakes on SE tubes. Remember to swap to the Z31 rotors too if you haven't already.

The rears, Z31 vented rotors on stock calipers and stock control arms. THIS WILL NOT WORK. You need need the entire arm for this setup to work, cuz you're gonna be doing more work trying to convert it.

If you can't get the arms, then you're going to need:
Z31 vented dust shield(you can go without this, just remove your old one)
Z31 87-89 vented rear calipers
2x 10mm hubcentric spacers for the ROTOR(NOT TYPICAL WHEEL SPACER. It will need to be custom machined! You have to measure the ID of the rotor and the OD of the hub where the rotor seats to) This will push the vented rotor out 10mm because the Z31 arms have the hubs pushed outward to clear the caliper bracket.
I don't know what else you're missing, but it seems like you only got the rotor, which isn't anywhere close to a rear brake upgrade. I need more info on your setup before I can help you. The above list is just a general list, you might need more specific parts. Honestly, if you can go without the rear brake upgrade, I'd recommend not to upgrade because it doesn't make that much of a difference for the work you're going to have to put in.

And so you know, I haven't done this conversion. I just swapped my entire arm to the Z31 vented brakes. You're going to need to do some measuring on your part to make sure you can get it to work.


Setup is Stock s12 suspension and brake components up front, I've only made it through about half of the passenger side work swapping the rotor so I honestly don't even know if the caliper is going to clear I will cry if it doesn't.  All I bought were rotors for front and back... maybe one day in the future I'll do the rear brake upgrade probably isnt realistic right now. Guess back to the drawing board.


Finished the fronts they fit. Yay.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: 8SixS12 on 11:30:51 PM / 08-Sep-09
Does anyone know which z31 strut tubes fit our cars?  turbo or n/a?  I'm looking at getting some Bilsteins HDs or Konis and the Turbo and na dampers have different part #s.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Leegamer on 09:15:48 AM / 09-Sep-09
You want 280zx struts for the front, not Z31.

Z31 shocks will work for the rear if you have IRS.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: 8SixS12 on 08:47:20 PM / 11-Sep-09
Update 01-21-09
Sorry guys I haven't updated this in a while. Thanks to Sterling for cleaning this up for me too. Anyway, I forgot to mention that you can run Z31 front inserts into the S12 strut tube also. I don't know if it was the turbo or na shock that fits, because one was 10mm larger in diameter than the other. Anyway with that said, you can run all 4 Konis and Canuck springs or whichever in your stock S12 setup and be on your merry way.

So this info in post #1 is wrong then?^^^
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 10:12:10 PM / 11-Sep-09
You can run the Z31 front shocks. The 280ZX ones are like stock length, so if you have Canucks lowering springs, the Z31s are actually better fitting because they are slightly shorter. I don't know which insert is the right one. If you look on the Z31 forums you can find out which one is 10mms larger or not. I would think the Turbo ones are 10mm larger so check around before ordering anything.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Troskinator on 06:16:51 PM / 06-Oct-09
ok this is going to sound very noobish, because it is  
could you use the v6 5 lug instead of the s13 4 lug, and whhich one will give you the most angle/aftermarket support?
and would it be best to swap in a s13/s14 subframe
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Xano on 07:53:37 PM / 06-Oct-09
S13 4 lug is best, SE parts are no different than 4cyl parts besides overall thickness and its 5 lug.

S13 gives aftermarket and angle, and you can buy 5 lug rotors and hubs to convert the S13 items to 5 lug.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Troskinator on 08:14:52 PM / 06-Oct-09
im kinda confused, i dont want to do the s13 4 lug because im getting a realy good deal on some 5lug wheels and im on a budget so i couldnt affort to do a 5 lug conversion, so is there any way i could use the se 5 lug
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: David B on 08:31:31 PM / 06-Oct-09
Quote from: Troskinator
im kinda confused, i dont want to do the s13 4 lug because im getting a realy good deal on some 5lug wheels and im on a budget so i couldnt affort to do a 5 lug conversion, so is there any way i could use the se 5 lug

s14 stuff
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Troskinator on 09:23:16 PM / 06-Oct-09
i dont want s14 stuff because i already have se 5 lug, is there any way to modify it to work? and sorry for the dumb question, im not good with suspencion stuff
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: gerrybg on 10:10:03 PM / 06-Oct-09
Yes you can use the se 5 lug set up but you need the whole strut because the se calipers have wider mounting points so the struts have wider caliper mounts to suit, so your ca20 brakes won't mount to the strut and also won't work with the se rotors.
So in short find complete struts brakes and hubs off an se.

For the rear use the se trailing arms. (You can swap out juts the rear 5 stud hubs, but it is such a shit job getting them out, (I know I've done it) you are better off just swapping the whole trailing arm complete with hubs brakes etc). Hope that answers your question.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Oldskool on 01:36:17 PM / 23-Nov-09
I'm going for the s13 setup, but I have a question, will I be able to put in the original s13 coilover, because the diameter of the spring of the s13 is bigger, and the spindle can't pull of a compleet turn.
Am I doing something wrong or should I take upgrade (adjustable) coilovers?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: RAW0330 on 09:24:09 AM / 27-Nov-09
The size of the coil won't matter when turning the wheel due to the fact it turns with the spindle. It's bolted to the spindle on the bottom, and the upper mount has a bearing which allows rotation of the assembly.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: seishuku on 11:29:39 AM / 27-Nov-09
It matters when it doesn't fit inside the S12 strut tower.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: CamInHead on 02:20:36 PM / 28-Nov-09
I recently got some z31 n/a rear arms (5stud and vented brakes). We offered up a known turbo disc and the back spacing was slightly different, though the actual disk thickness identical.

Anybody picked up on that before ?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: RAW0330 on 07:01:13 AM / 02-Dec-09
Quote from: seishuku
It matters when it doesn't fit inside the S12 strut tower.

Good point, but he asked whether or no it'll affect turning, assuming it'll fit in place.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 08:06:57 AM / 03-Dec-09
CamInHead: It depends which year your Z31 arms are, If they are 84-86, they are the standard arms. If they are the 87-89(turbo or n/a) then they will accept the vented rotors/calipers and are 10mm wider on both sides. What year z31 disc and what year z31 arms are you comparing to/have?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: CamInHead on 01:53:35 PM / 09-Apr-10
Don't know for sure but the fella I got my bits off says they're later N/A, 5-lug. Point I wanted to make is it appears to be that either will work but aren't interchangeable ie; use either Z31 n/a or turbo but not a mix of the two.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: XenoVibe on 12:27:53 AM / 17-May-10
which size are the Z32 calipers, 26mm or 30mm? or do both fit?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: deadpirate on 12:33:46 AM / 17-May-10
^they both have the same bolt pattern so they both fit
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: XenoVibe on 03:34:34 AM / 17-May-10
Brake option #1:
Z32 Front brakes
- Z32 Master cylinder 1" or 1 1/16"(15/16" is fine but will give a slightly mushier pedal feel)
- S13 Z32 front brake conversion line
- Z32 rotors(matching calipers)
- IF 4-LUG! --- Redrill rotors


Does this mean that you can keep using stock brake lines in the rear?
Also what is that S13 Z32 Front brake conversion line mean?
What does he mean by "matching calipers"?
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: deadpirate on 03:40:04 AM / 17-May-10
Quote from: XenoVibe
Brake option #1:
Z32 Front brakes
- Z32 Master cylinder 1" or 1 1/16"(15/16" is fine but will give a slightly mushier pedal feel)
- S13 Z32 front brake conversion line
- Z32 rotors(matching calipers)
- IF 4-LUG! --- Redrill rotors
Does this mean that you can keep using stock brake lines in the rear?
Also what is that S13 Z32 Front brake conversion line mean?
What does he mean by "matching calipers"?



doesnt effect your brake lines

the lines are different because they have different banjo bolts

you need matching rotors for the matching calipers (26mm vs 30mm)

seriously dude, this isnt hard to put together
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: VG33ERGazelle? on 07:22:35 PM / 18-May-10
I've got an s14 SE in my junkyard that's set to go out on saturday, so I'm going to make sure I have this clear now.

to do the s12/s14 front suspension conversion I need:
-S14 balljoint
-S14 spindle
-S14 SE hubs(5-lug)
-S14 tension rod brackets

are these the only factory bits I need? the car is untouched and complete and I wanna make sure I get everything because s13s/s14s are rare in my yard.

might I also need the stock tie rods, tension rods, and sway bar or do the factory s12 tensions rods/tie rod components work fine

I know the sway bar will require longer bolts and washers if I use the s12 one, but will the s14 one bolt in fine?

I'll worry about the brakes and the rear set up later, I just want to get this stuff while I can and I want to make sure I've got EVERYTHING I need while it's available to me
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Maxpow on 01:47:19 AM / 22-Jun-10
Would it be possible to use z31 bolt on rotors as slip ons while I wait to purchase some z31 front slip ons?


(this is if I use the 88 z31 turbo for a brake upgrade)

That's a no. I can feel it I'll just buy some more .

So to clarify and make sure I don't grab shit I don't need. If I want 2 piston Calipers up front I need the front hub, front wheel bearing, and front rotors/calipers. If I want the vented discs in the back I need the control arms, hubs, caliper and rotors. Do I need the whole spindle or just the control arm? I guess I am confused if by hubs it means just the part that spins or the entire knuckle.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 01:27:01 PM / 22-Jun-10
You don't need the entire strut assembly, but you can still use it. But yes, you just need the brakes, wheel bearing/hub, and rotors/calipers for the fronts. GL

The rears, just grab everything touching the control arm and you're set. Look at the VIN plate and tell me what the rear ratio is. It should say RCxx where XX = 2 digit number, like RC37 or something. I'm looking for some different rear ratios for my car.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: DriftOner on 11:25:40 PM / 22-Jun-10
I am going to be throwing s13 coilovers on my car once I get it running. The rear setup seems very vague though. What does it take to put s13 coilovers in the rear? I've got the independent rear suspension. Thanks.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Maxpow on 12:00:47 AM / 23-Jun-10
Quote from: DriftOner
I am going to be throwing s13 coilovers on my car once I get it running. The rear setup seems very vague though. What does it take to put s13 coilovers in the rear? I've got the independent rear suspension. Thanks.


Its not going to happen man.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: EightySix200SX on 09:55:22 AM / 19-Jul-10
Hung sss blue coils plus agx= win no squat no play no noise, i bombed little tujunga sunday night anyway thanks for a solid suspension setup this is really good shit i might up the spring rate maybe ill dial in the shocks first im running on mid setting right now maybe 5 or 6 ill test next. Thanks again dude

sscs are whatevs good for a daily but the rear is too soft
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: turbo-s12 on 02:07:19 PM / 10-Aug-10
so i am wanting to do this:
Option 2:
s12-S13 hybrid
-S13 balljoint
-S13 spindle
-stock S13 4-lugs
-S12 stock control arm
can i still use my stock brake setup? sorry if this question seems retarded i need it clarified..thanks
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: EightySix200SX on 02:53:45 PM / 10-Aug-10
Quote from: turbo-s12
so i am wanting to do this:
Option 2:
s12-S13 hybrid
-S13 balljoint
-S13 spindle
-stock S13 4-lugs
-S12 stock control arm
can i still use my stock brake setup? sorry if this question seems retarded i need it clarified..thanks

no u will either need stock 240sx stuffs of do the q45/j30 conversion.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Kustamogen on 03:00:28 PM / 10-Aug-10
Quote from: EightySix200SX
no u will either need stock 240sx stuffs of do the q45/j30 conversion.

youll also need the inner/outer tie rods as well
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: turbo-s12 on 10:18:17 PM / 11-Aug-10
those lists arent very complete if u know wat i mean there are people like me that are kinda retarded and think wats in the list is all u need...lol
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: mod_mastaz on 04:31:50 AM / 12-Aug-10
You obviously aren't reading the entire post because there was a brake section and also the other required swapped items. Also, it would make sense that if you're upgrading to the s13 suspension, you would use the s13 brakes.
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 12:03:23 PM / 12-Aug-10
Quote from: turbo-s12
those lists arent very complete if u know wat i mean there are people like me that are kinda retarded and think wats in the list is all u need...lol

It's not hard to figure out, all the answers are right in front of you. Just do a little reading, it's actually quite simple
Title: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Jay on 12:40:53 PM / 12-Aug-10
Quote from: Kustamogen
youll also need the inner/outer tie rods as well

Which I can now provide some. No cutting/welding/tapping required!
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Drfsta on 08:06:05 PM / 22-Sep-10
also - apologies for this most likely having been answered azillion times. I just need to confirm...
RE. S13 setup...

- Aftermarket S13 Inner AND Outer tierod ends are required with NO further modification (I thought there was still a length issue???)
- Purchasing a STANDARD S13 brake line is required with NO further modification (or is it a S12/13 hybrid??? please excuse my lack of technical knowledge in this specific area)
- PS13 (SR20S13) front callipers are an upgrade from the stock RS13(CA18S13) equivelant?

Thanks
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Jay on 08:41:08 PM / 22-Sep-10
No, stock S13 tie rod setup is too long. I sell the set that isn't, and isn't factory S13 outers, but is factory S13 inners
Yes, Standard S13 brake hoses outer brake lines for S13 brake calipers. You can get away with the stock S12 ones (I do), but they are fairly tight
I have no idea about number 3
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: s-chassis_only on 09:23:29 PM / 22-Sep-10
can you still do the brake and suspension setup with a solid rear end?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Drfsta on 11:41:49 PM / 23-Sep-10
No, stock S13 tie rod setup is too long. I sell the set that isn't, and isn't factory S13 outers, but is factory S13 inners
Yes, Standard S13 brake hoses outer brake lines for S13 brake calipers. You can get away with the stock S12 ones (I do), but they are fairly tight
I have no idea about number 3

Ok great yeah I thought so. I am in Auckland, New Zealand - would you be willing to email me some costs 'landed' and some description or images etc of the product?? If its rediculously expensive(crappy exchange rate etc!) what do I need to know about customising the S13 rod ends does the inner just require further thread (cut/grind/die?) how much Exactly anyone know... You guys must get awful sick of reposting this sh** sorry
Much appreciated. tony_mayall@hotmail.com
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: ChadillacS12 on 06:52:55 PM / 20-Nov-10
Im looking into the first option, but does the megan kit bolt up to that? Or would the s13 set up be better?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Jay on 06:56:21 PM / 20-Nov-10
The megan kit requires you to do the S13 knuckle conversion. The only difference between the S13 and the S12 megan kits are the rear coils
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: ChadillacS12 on 05:13:01 AM / 21-Nov-10
awesome, thanks
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: CamInHead on 02:35:55 PM / 21-Mar-11
Well I've been taking apart the S12 rear suspension and the drivehafts (axles ?) for the Z31 conversion are different. The flange at the suspension arm is a different stud pattern and the input shaft at the diff is different too.

Anyone else seen this as all other information indicates z31 and s12 should be interchangeable ?

edit: A bit more info, the Z31 FSM decsribes them as "Double Offset Birfield" and "Tripod-Tripod" types but gives no infomation when one or the other was used . My UK Turbo S12 with R200 diff uses the T-T type.
 

(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m101/E555KHY/HPIM1948.jpg)

(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m101/E555KHY/HPIM1951.jpg)
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: BoostedVG on 03:02:05 PM / 21-Mar-11
 I don't recognize the 4 bolt pattern. I believe the Birfield went on turbo 300zx's.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Taris Blue on 07:15:13 PM / 21-Mar-11
Well I've been taking apart the S12 rear suspension and the drivehafts (axles ?) for the Z31 conversion are different. The flange at the suspension arm is a different stud pattern and the input shaft at the diff is different too.

Anyone else seen this as all other information indicates z31 and s12 should be interchangeable ?

edit: A bit more info, the Z31 FSM decsribes them as "Double Offset Birfield" and "Tripod-Tripod" types but gives no infomation when one or the other was used . My UK Turbo S12 with R200 diff uses the T-T type.
 

Tripod-Tripod is the six bolt pattern on the right...it was used in all NA Z31's...the four bolt pattern on the left is the double offset birfield type and was used in all Turbocharged z31's...

I can't quite comment as to when they are used in S12 applications, but I can say that my SE with R200 uses the six bolt pattern Tripod-Tripod axles
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 08:51:13 PM / 10-Feb-12
So for complete s13 front end conversion you need inners, outers, knuckles, hubs, control arm, sway bar, and calipers, brake lines with an s13 front subframe and crossmember?? All s13 this thread is not very straight I keep seeing 50 different mentions of parts that aren't the same maybe the mods could clean up this thread for usable proven information?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: I_heart_VVL on 11:51:20 AM / 11-Feb-12
 So if I want to use an 88 turbo diff, I also need the trailing arms and axles?

So for complete s13 front end conversion you need inners, outers, knuckles, hubs, control arm, sway bar, and calipers, brake lines with an s13 front subframe and crossmember?? All s13 this thread is not very straight I keep seeing 50 different mentions of parts that aren't the same maybe the mods could clean up this thread for usable proven information?

You need S13 tension rods if you use S13 control arms which requires S14 tension rod brackets(or you can drill new holes into your S13 LCAs for your stock tension rods).
You also don't NEED an S13 crossmember. S13 LCAs bolt right up to the stock piece.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 03:47:28 PM / 11-Feb-12
so i can use my stock inners, outers, hubs, sway bar, knuckles, calipers, brake lines, and just s13 control arms, tension rods, s14 tension rod brackets for s13 coilovers?

Post Merge: [time]03:49:03 PM / 11-Feb-12 [/time]
this is what i mean when this thread is not CLEAR. CLEAR AS IN CRYSTAL. WHAT CAN I USE STOCK THAT I DO NOT HAVE TO CHANGE ON MY STOCK FRONT CROSSMEMBER AND SUBFRAME TO RUN S13 COILS?

Post Merge: 03:50:58 PM / 11-Feb-12
i just need the parts list for conversion on the front only. im doing mustang agx's and canucks in the rear
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: I_heart_VVL on 09:52:20 AM / 12-Feb-12
You can't run S13 coils on stock spindles.
The bare minimum you need to run S13 spindles are S13 tie rods and balljoints to be pressed in to your stock control arm. You also need the brakes since you stock calipers won't fit on the S13 spindle.
People get S13/S14 control arms for a wider track, and S14 tension rod brackets to be able to use aftermarket adjustable tension rods.

I don't a know a way to say this any clearer.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 08:15:05 PM / 12-Feb-12
your missing my point. if i have to use s13 calipers would i have to use s13 lines it's not just a given if you tell me s13 calipers your blotchy with your details on doing an s13 front setup for s13 coils. and on having balljoints and tie rods pressed into my stock control arm couldn't i just get an s13 control arm to skip that? see what im saying. i know i can't run s13 coils on stock spindles that is why im asking you what do i need, every single little tiny minute detail down to bolts on what i HAVE to get for s13 coils. your making it complicated. can i bolt an s13 control arm/knuckle/spindle/hub/tension rods to my s12 crossmember/subframe with stock s12 tie rods if i have a complete s12 front end what do i have to change out to run s13 coils up front. like i can't put it any more clear on what i'm asking. it's simple. and if i run s13 calipers because i have to for s13 brakes do i have to run s13 lines?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: axlegrease on 10:22:12 PM / 12-Feb-12
This thread is really easy to understand with a little common sense. If you're not mechanically inclined enough to read through and understand without needing every tiny little detail, then maybe this isn't the project for you. Not trying to be a dick, just sayin'.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: sideways_s12 on 10:40:50 PM / 12-Feb-12
I actually see exactly where Nismo is coming from.... I think this is what were looking for Nismo

Post Merge: 09:43:31 PM / 12-Feb-12
After installing my front megan coilovers i TRULY know what you must do to get them installed. I consider myself more than lucky to acquire a whole front subframe/suspension from a good friends parts s13 for the price of a case of beer.

s13 tie rods inners/outers(s12 are too short)
s13 spindle(for the coilover to mount properly)
s13 brake lines(s12 have the block fitting rather than threaded)
S13 rotors(to acompany s12 calipers)
S13 calipers(s12 wont bolt up to s13 spindles)
s13/longer sway bar endlinks i will also be using an s13 sway bar and moounts because the s12 bar with s12 endlinks gets way to close to the tension rod and will most likely make contact when the suspension is compressed


(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2825/dsc00224ed7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us) s12 caliper shown against s13 spindle.

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6575/dsc00229qx1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us) s13 seen left s12 right difference can be seen in mounting size as well as the brake line difference


Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 06:31:42 AM / 13-Feb-12
This thread is really easy to understand with a little common sense. If you're not mechanically inclined enough to read through and understand without needing every tiny little detail, then maybe this isn't the project for you. Not trying to be a dick, just sayin'.

True, if you can't figure out the difference from looking at a s12 and s13 front end with some reading/research here
then well......... read the end of the quote^
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 05:41:01 PM / 13-Feb-12
i guess sideways is the only person who understood my question. he hit the nail on the head. most of you guys just say a select amount of parts to do an s13 front conversion and sks12 probably took that advice and realized he was screwed. luckily he got a whole front end to avoid the problem. so far i only have an s12 front for comparison i dont have s13 stuff yet but i will be raping and pillaging a vert for the front end here in a few weeks.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: sideways_s12 on 07:09:16 PM / 13-Feb-12
Yeah I got what you were saying I was in the same boat you just beat me to the question then i happened to come across that post....
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 10:48:14 PM / 13-Feb-12
my set up consists of s13 lca, s13 knuckles, s14 tension rod bracket, s13 coilovers, s13 tension rods
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 05:34:53 PM / 15-Feb-12
what about your brakes? still s12?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: sideways_s12 on 05:39:45 PM / 15-Feb-12
Nismo...check it it's all s13 bro..

S13 rotors(to acompany s12 calipers)
S13 calipers(s12 wont bolt up to s13 spindles)
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 08:26:04 PM / 15-Feb-12
Ye sorry forgot to put that in. S13 brakes as well
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 04:32:24 PM / 18-Feb-12
do you have the stock s12 swaybar still?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 12:00:35 AM / 19-Feb-12
Haven't put it all in yet I need to get home and do it. I don't remember what I'm doing with that yet
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 05:57:26 PM / 19-Feb-12
So wait you haven't even finished it yet and you come up patronizing me by reiterating axlegrease's quote? are you serious? if you haven't done it then why are you giving me info that it "works" when you don't even have it done?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 04:11:11 PM / 20-Feb-12
I will have it done next week. Sorry you couldn't read through some info and figure it out yourself. Instead you wanwant someone to hold your hand through this
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 09:19:17 AM / 21-Feb-12
no im doing it myself im not a trial and error kind of person i research and then make educated guesses and do it.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: CamInHead on 01:58:04 PM / 06-Mar-12
I have;

S13 Lower Arms, Tension Rods and Track Rods & Ends, S14 hubs & knuckles (5 lug), Tension Rod Brackets and Sway Bar Mounts, Z32 front 4-pot ally calipers and brake lines.
I found today there's absolutly no chance of the stock sway bar lining-up with the drop-link holes on the S13 LCAs. They're about a quarter inch too far inboard, so S13 swaybar and links it is.
I measured the track widths front and rear and, with a Z31 rear and stock S14 wheels, the difference front/rear is ~70mm, with the front being much wider. I have 25mm spacers coming for the rear and the stock S12 front LCAs will reduce the front track by 20mm.

No one else has mentioned these problems and I'm not sure why I would be the first, unless it's because I've used a EuroDM car.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 04:43:20 PM / 06-Mar-12
no it's just because some people relay blotchy information on some parts needed not ALL. or they haven't even done it and are talking heresay like dsport does. the s12 sway doesn't line up at all you have to either cut the bushings in half or get 2 longer tension rod bolts with washers to space it out.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 09:29:36 PM / 06-Mar-12
Thanks but I'm pretty sure in pretty much finished my front end swap. Thanks for trying
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Jay on 09:46:55 PM / 06-Mar-12
I fail to see how this thread is unclear.

The only unclear thing about it is the issue of the tie rods and tie rod ends, which isn't addressed. So I'm going to edit those in.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 04:35:31 PM / 08-Mar-12
thanks jay! i got mine done on the 29th of last month. anybody trying to do this front conversion please please please have a spare s13 parts car just in case it helps and avoids tons of headaches when changing stuff
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: S12tanner on 12:54:23 AM / 19-Apr-12
not to sound newbish same for the rear as well ??? and the differnce between s13 hybrid and just s13 a little more detailed please i want to run s13 coilovers but stock for now will work .. mostly want to know about the rear same parts as whats listed ???

EDIT::: judging by the controverysy this thread has i will be crytal CLEAR on my question!!

what is NEEDED for the rear ? does s13 work? or what car z31 or 280zx to achive rear coilovers
NOTE::: i want to change as much from stock as possible as theyre impossible to find in alberta
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 10:44:07 AM / 19-Apr-12
I just used a 8" blue coil spring from daymotorsports and I'm putting in some pro comp short stroke shocks when I get home from work
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Arro on 11:17:53 AM / 19-Apr-12
Yeah the S13 rear stuff won't work, and the few "coilover" brands that make rears as part of the set of four (fronts and rears sold as one kit) are "ok" at best... it's better to just assemble your own rear setup by purchasing a couple springs and some universal adustable sleeves for the lower perch. That information and pictures is all on this site just look at the info pinned.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: SlickS12 on 07:41:26 PM / 25-Apr-12
Its unclear about this but, I dont want to switch to coilovers as I have canucks already, but I do want to upgrade the brakes to q45.  I have an 84 hatch so to upgrade to to those I would need SE strut tubes/spindles to accept the q45 brakes.  My question is could I re-use my stock hubs, or swap over to 240 4 lug hubs, to keep the same bolt pattern?


Also, kind of unrelated, would it be possible to use an s13/14 control arm with corresponding tc bar, sway bar and lower ball joint and bolt it to the se spindle??

Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: DirtyGaze on 07:53:17 PM / 25-Apr-12
Its unclear about this but, I dont want to switch to coilovers as I have canucks already, but I do want to upgrade the brakes to q45.  I have an 84 hatch so to upgrade to to those I would need SE strut tubes/spindles to accept the q45 brakes.  My question is could I re-use my stock hubs, or swap over to 240 4 lug hubs, to keep the same bolt pattern?

Im curious about that too.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Arro on 02:23:58 AM / 26-Apr-12
1. I believe you would need to get Z31 4-lug hubs and rotor to go back to 4-lug. You can't use 240SX hubs without total S13 front conversion.

2. Using any other arm than the S12 control arm will result in much more negative camber. You don't need to change control arms, just modify the S12 arms to use newer style tension rods. Although really the Nismo "power bar"tension rod bracket is only just a metal tube welded between the tension rods. You could cut your own bar to fit with a hacksaw and have an exhaust shop weld it in place for 10-20 bux... without having to fuck with unneeded (and detrimental) changes.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Draconis on 05:51:41 AM / 26-Apr-12
Its unclear about this but, I dont want to switch to coilovers as I have canucks already, but I do want to upgrade the brakes to q45.  I have an 84 hatch so to upgrade to to those I would need SE strut tubes/spindles to accept the q45 brakes.  My question is could I re-use my stock hubs, or swap over to 240 4 lug hubs, to keep the same bolt pattern?


Also, kind of unrelated, would it be possible to use an s13/14 control arm with corresponding tc bar, sway bar and lower ball joint and bolt it to the se spindle??

You have an SE so that will be your biggest asset. It is best to find an 87-89 Z31 turbo hub and swap that over. That way you can then use slip on rotors. Then installing the Q45 calipers isnt that big of a deal. Just a matter of adding a shim or something as it needs to be spaced out appropriately. Hit up Silverton as he did this to his SE. I'll be doing the same but with a set of turbo Z32 calipers for what I need.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Colonel Gustard on 06:29:49 PM / 26-Apr-12
for 4 lug guys, you swap over to Infinity M30 strut tubes and hubs, they already have slip on rotors and have the same caliper spacing as SE tubes. Basically you can upgrade to q45 or j30 rotors and calipers as long as you redrill the rotors and have slip ons at the same time while maintaining your 4 lug
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: DirtyGaze on 07:52:06 PM / 26-Apr-12
for 4 lug guys, you swap over to Infinity M30 strut tubes and hubs, they already have slip on rotors and have the same caliper spacing as SE tubes. Basically you can upgrade to q45 or j30 rotors and calipers as long as you redrill the rotors and have slip ons at the same time while maintaining your 4 lug

So by that logic, I should get M30 Strut tubes and hubs, and do my coilover conversion on those instead of the SE strut tubes?  If thats true, I think Im in the market to find some, lol.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Colonel Gustard on 11:08:53 PM / 26-Apr-12
Yes sir, thats the word on the street. Then let me get those SE tubes so i can do the coilovers on them lol
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: 200srdrift on 01:50:18 AM / 27-Apr-12
Do spring companies make smaller diameter springs than what come on like rear sets of PBM or tein or d2 or stance coilovers. My s14 rears are too wide to fit in s12 strut tower... my plan find either smaller diameter coil springs or get smaller springs for stock spring location.

Thanks
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: DirtyGaze on 01:06:12 PM / 27-Apr-12
Do spring companies make smaller diameter springs than what come on like rear sets of PBM or tein or d2 or stance coilovers. My s14 rears are too wide to fit in s12 strut tower... my plan find either smaller diameter coil springs or get smaller springs for stock spring location.

Thanks

Simple answer.
Yes.

Youll have to do some research and measuring to find out what you really want (5x8 spring 375 lbs).  Once you have that idea, check out Daymotorsports.com spring selection.  If they dont have it, other places do..but Im not familiar with them.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Arro on 01:20:02 PM / 27-Apr-12
Simple answer.
Yes.

Youll have to do some research and measuring to find out what you really want (5x8 spring 375 lbs).  Once you have that idea, check out Daymotorsports.com spring selection.  If they dont have it, other places do..but Im not familiar with them.

NO! I *think* he is asking us if he can stick a small diameter spring on a stock S12 spring perch, in which case the answer is NO! Like I said above, his question is UNCLEAR!

200srdrift: Are you talking about for the fronts or the rears? Your question is confusing.

Fronts: Not that will fit on stock strut tube spring perches. This is why we just build a sleeved coilover or switch to S13 knuckle and run an S13 coilover (which has the right spring and the right perch for that spring).

For the rears, the spring doesn't go around the shock so I am still assuming you're talking about the front.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: 200srdrift on 01:38:32 AM / 28-Apr-12
NO! I *think* he is asking us if he can stick a small diameter spring on a stock S12 spring perch, in which case the answer is NO! Like I said above, his question is UNCLEAR!

200srdrift: Are you talking about for the fronts or the rears? Your question is confusing.

Fronts: Not that will fit on stock strut tube spring perches. This is why we just build a sleeved coilover or switch to S13 knuckle and run an S13 coilover (which has the right spring and the right perch for that spring).

For the rears, the spring doesn't go around the shock so I am still assuming you're talking about the front.

Question was where to find springs in custom sizing and rates for the stock rear spring location. Or also if there are smaller diameter springs that I can get to fit my coils so I can eliminate using any spring in the stock rear location all together.

Hope this isn't confusing either
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Arro on 07:15:23 PM / 28-Apr-12
No now it isn't... so we're talking rears. Look here:

http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=33389.0

This shows custom built fronts, but also the setup for the rears incl. the spring size. Once you know the spring size to use, you can call Eibach and get whatever rates you want in a spring that size.  You're gonna have to do that because the company listed in that post no longer carries 5x8" springs, unless you want to sift through Summit and find springs in that size that are of a rate that's the same or close to what you're looking for.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: 200srdrift on 07:10:10 PM / 29-Apr-12
No now it isn't... so we're talking rears. Look here:

http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=33389.0

This shows custom built fronts, but also the setup for the rears incl. the spring size. Once you know the spring size to use, you can call Eibach and get whatever rates you want in a spring that size.  You're gonna have to do that because the company listed in that post no longer carries 5x8" springs, unless you want to sift through Summit and find springs in that size that are of a rate that's the same or close to what you're looking for.

good man... ill check it out

thanks
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: night_s12 on 09:06:53 PM / 29-Apr-12
so any 5x8 spring technically works u just gotta find the rate and length u want?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 07:55:42 AM / 30-Apr-12
Arro I just ordered those 5 x8 springs not that long ago, around 1 month ago, and I have them in my car.
So unless you tried ordering them within the last month then they should still have them
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Arro on 11:58:07 AM / 30-Apr-12
The link was all fucked up once I went into his post and looked at it. They sell 5x8" springs, but the SSS blues that Justen uses aren't available through Day motorsports any longer... you have to get them from another vendor that deals with SSS (which I found). I'm working on cleaning up all the info so either today or tomorrow I should have all that straightened out.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: DirtyGaze on 12:28:04 PM / 30-Apr-12
NO! I *think* ...

Did I just get pimp slapped by a mod?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Arro on 12:31:48 PM / 30-Apr-12
I was tired lol
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: 200srdrift on 11:14:02 PM / 09-Jun-12
For the OP. How far off is the s13 tension rod brackets (TC brackets) to bolt up to chassis(s14 is a bit harder to source than s13)?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Slip n Slide on 03:12:42 PM / 29-Jul-12
My 1995 escort tie rod ends dont fit into my s13 spindles? Am I going to have to drill that out?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 06:27:08 PM / 18-Sep-12
Help

Quick question,
I have fitted S13 inner and outer track rods and whilst they fit, the wheels are pointing in opposite directions, even after max adjustment.

Page one states I can use A1 Racing ends with S12 inners, would A1 Racing ends fit S13 inners?

It also states, S13/s14 tie rod inner/outers combo, respectively.  Does this mean S13 inner with S14 outer, as an answer on Sxoc to the same question stated S14 outers will NOT fit S13 inners.

I have
S13 LCA'S
S13 Coilovers
S13 hub
S14 tension rod bracket
S14 tension rod
S14 anti roll bar
All fit perfectly, it's just the track rods I need to sort. 

Help, Help, Help
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: I_heart_VVL on 08:40:46 PM / 19-Sep-12
You need to cut your tie rods a bit, they are too long.

A1 outer tire rod uses the stock s12 inner, the s13 inner would be WAY too long when fitted to the A1 tire rod.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Jay on 09:54:47 PM / 19-Sep-12
A-1 rods are for the stock S12 inners, they will not go on the S13 inner. Even if you tried, the S13 inner is an M12 threading. the S12 inner is an M14 threading.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 04:39:52 PM / 23-Sep-12
Would S14 inners and outers be fine if I cut the inners down?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 01:02:38 PM / 29-Sep-12
Done and sorted :yes:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SAVeJvvbgdk/UGctgo4ZwaI/AAAAAAAAAR0/s1mSy4nPXk4/s720/IMG_0255.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U-nvjnKan74/UGctf1pSmkI/AAAAAAAAARs/1VemA9VaAi4/s912/IMG_0254.JPG)

Only problem now is the back of the spokes on my Lenso 17" wheels ET42 offset are catching on Skyline GTST calipers :yelling:

Does anyone know what offset I will need or cheap wheels that will fit???
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: night_s12 on 01:45:57 PM / 30-Sep-12
spacers
use them
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 04:58:09 PM / 01-Oct-12
spacers
use them



Using spacers will have the wheels hanging out of the arches by an inch which may be an instant MOT failure.

https://picasaweb.google.com/m/viewer?fgl=true&pli=1#photo/112730165112352569748/5750789776640794929/5794014563309607394 (https://picasaweb.google.com/m/viewer?fgl=true&pli=1#photo/112730165112352569748/5750789776640794929/5794014563309607394)

https://picasaweb.google.com/m/viewer?fgl=true&pli=1#photo/112730165112352569748/5750789776640794929/5794014531614887954 (https://picasaweb.google.com/m/viewer?fgl=true&pli=1#photo/112730165112352569748/5750789776640794929/5794014531614887954)
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: VG30DETT on 05:32:42 PM / 01-Oct-12
How much space do you need to clear? If you get extended studs, you can run small spacers, as in like 2.5mm small.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 05:42:19 PM / 01-Oct-12
It's a good inch it needs spacing
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: VG30DETT on 05:52:16 PM / 01-Oct-12
Oh, yeah you won't benefit from that then. Space out some shitty hellasunk wheels for MOT insp. and swap out after?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 03:21:57 AM / 03-Oct-12
Oh, yeah you won't benefit from that then. Space out some shitty hellasunk wheels for MOT insp. and swap out after?

Well if the wheels are already +42 then they are sunk. You can fit a way more aggressive wheel on the front
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 06:54:05 AM / 03-Oct-12
Well if the wheels are already +42 then they are sunk. You can fit a way more aggressive wheel on the front

Take a look at my pics a couple of posts back, you can see they are virtually hanging out of the arches.  I am using S13 LCAs

in fact here they are along with measurements of the Skyline GTST calipers fitted

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FDX9H5DzBmY/UGh5jD3DGiI/AAAAAAAAASc/rG2RAXiH85w/s640/IMG_0258.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rnGvzFGlvTw/UGh5hLxbUBI/AAAAAAAAASU/Pen6TP6ZEFw/s640/IMG_0261.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UcfAgGib-b0/UGxZzEYsp0I/AAAAAAAAATA/2gAbef4BJOU/s640/IMG_0269.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mJiNjWNAEX8/UGxZ1L3m1MI/AAAAAAAAATI/D2hIk51hlNg/s640/IMG_0270.JPG)
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 02:02:18 PM / 03-Oct-12
the calipers are on the wrong side of the caliper bracket dude. it goes inside the two holes not outside
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 02:28:56 PM / 03-Oct-12
Add some camber to it. I could easily fit a 15 x 7 et 0 on the front
What size tire is that and what width is the rim
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 06:01:59 PM / 03-Oct-12
17x7, 205/40 tyres ET42
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: D-sport S12 on 10:15:06 PM / 03-Oct-12
Add some camber then
Those should easily fit
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 03:43:38 PM / 10-Oct-12
the calipers are on the wrong side of the caliper bracket dude. it goes inside the two holes not outside

Can you show me pictures of your S13 front setup with Skyline R33 GTST calipers fitted so I can see
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 08:53:56 PM / 10-Oct-12
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp313/arnny69er/IMG_0517.jpg

redrill r33 rotors to 4 lug
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 09:56:59 PM / 10-Oct-12
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp313/arnny69er/IMG_0517.jpg

redrill r33 rotors to 4 lug

they are redrilled to 4 lug.  can you show them all bolted to your car working?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: nismo_200sx on 02:12:06 PM / 11-Oct-12
it isn't my car it's my friends but you have to get a caliper bracket extension with longer bolts or a different retrofitted caliper
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 04:11:27 PM / 12-Oct-12
it isn't my car it's my friends but you have to get a caliper bracket extension with longer bolts or a different retrofitted caliper

WHAT, It isn't your car.

Exactly what has your friend done?  Fitting a caliper bracket extension will move the position of the caliper in our out. That then has the knock on effect of the disc not fitting into the caliper.

I could have easily retrofitted another caliper/disc setup, I'm after real answers here not a friend of a friends car story with a vague setup
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Prolowtone on 08:37:11 PM / 13-Oct-12
Ok there calm down, he just tried to help. If you dont care for his info then take it for what it was. Im not sure of the setup myself so i am not to sure as to what you need to do other then to try different rims. My -38 17x7 enkies were pretty fucking close to my wilwood calipers on my car. I am also running stock lcas (customized and Box welded)  and stock strut so i could space out the wheel.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img687/6961/img1491r.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img822/48/img1492iy.jpg)
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: paulsilv on 09:18:36 AM / 30-Oct-12
Thanks for calming me down Prolowtone :grinwink:, and for your excellent pictures, im sure they will help other members doing this swap.

What brake setup have you got there? Which Wilwood calipers and discs?

I was just asking for complete concise information previously, as its hard enough keeping these cars on the road when there are very, very few parts now available for them.

Enkei PR01 wheels bought really cheap off eBay with tyres.

Trial fitted them and they fit perfect.  Should have immense braking upfront now with the R33 GTST calipers and discs.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Cc8ve9qD5Jk/UI_YtlCWQFI/AAAAAAAAAUI/0qkSPZFOCHY/s640/IMG_0282.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-z9-qN068IUU/UI_YnQRlL7I/AAAAAAAAAUA/N_W68nKYElI/s640/IMG_0284.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HYVFnT5Dru8/UI_Y0SctuFI/AAAAAAAAAUc/TVq1D-Z6T0U/s640/IMG_0286.JPG)

Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Prolowtone on 07:58:44 PM / 02-Nov-12
Damn that looks good.

 My kit was from a group buy years back set up by the member Magnum. The calipers and rotors i believe were for an s13 but have a custom CNCed top hats for the rotor to attach to the hub and a CNCed bracket for the caliper to bolt to the stock s12 strut. I have stock s12 struts and hubs with canuck motorsport lowering springs. I had to grind down the lip around the balljoint of the LCA and the bottom of my balljoint near the grease fitting to Clear the rotor :S which i why i reinforced it all by box welding and thickening the lca. Lets just say it is Any thing but bolt on :nerdyembarassed: took a bit of effort and a kick in the ass to try it

(http://imageshack.us/a/img854/5236/img1458of.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img191/126/img0692j.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img594/4658/1024012041e.jpg)

they are huge dont fit my stock rims, smallest rim i can fit is a 16
(http://imageshack.us/a/img5/4162/1024012103.jpg)
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Slideways87Panda on 03:21:02 PM / 28-Sep-13
 this is the setup im going to be running, are these options for the tierods bolt in? 

Option 1:
S12 Setup
 -S13 balljoint
 -S13 spindle
 -S13 5-lug conversion hub /// -stock S13 4-lugs
 -S13 Brake caliper hoses (Optional, but recommended as the S12 hoses stretch a little tight)
 -S12 stock control arm/tension rods
 -S13 tie rods, and 1995 ford escort tie rod ends /// S12 tie rods, A1 tie rod ends 
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Akira87S12SE on 10:05:40 AM / 05-Jun-14
You can run the Z31 front shocks. The 280ZX ones are like stock length, so if you have Canucks lowering springs, the Z31s are actually better fitting because they are slightly shorter. I don't know which insert is the right one. If you look on the Z31 forums you can find out which one is 10mms larger or not. I would think the Turbo ones are 10mm larger so check around before ordering anything.

Can anyone confirm that Z31 front shocks do, in fact, work on our car?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Does it moo? on 03:11:57 PM / 08-Jul-14
Sorry for yet another 'will this work' question, but my fucking ADD brain can't prioritize for shit so I forgot to order half the stuff. Could someone wise please correct me if I'm missing something for an S13 control arm setup? This is what I have right now:

· Damper struts
· S13 hubs, brake discs and callipers
· S13 lower control arms + ball joints
· S13 tie rod ends

I tried to read up properly this time so I don't have to make yet another order. Is there anything else than the stuff listed below that I should have for it to work?

· S13 tie rods - http://camskill.co.uk/m20b0s2021p7144/NISSAN_200SX_1_8_COUPE_TURBO_S13_(CA18DET)_(01_89-11_94)_-_SERVICING_PARTS_TUNING_SPARES_and_SERVICE_ACCESSORIES_-_Steering_Rack_End_-_200SX_S13_Turbo_Models

· S13 Tein tension rods - http://camskill.co.uk/m20b0s2023p7161/NISSAN_200SX_1_8_COUPE_TURBO_S13_(CA18DET)_(01_89-11_94)_-_SERVICING_PARTS_TUNING_SPARES_and_SERVICE_ACCESSORIES_-_Tein_Pillow_Ball_Tension_Rods_-_All_200SX_S13_Turbo_Models

· S14 tension rod brackets

Are the S13 tie rods and S14 brackets bolt-on without any major modification? Also, will an aftermarket S13 sway bar fit after changing to the S13 LCAs?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Baby on 02:23:34 AM / 09-Jul-14
You have to drill a new hole, or oval out a current hole (your choice) on the S14 brackets. Nothing major, but I'd suggest a drill press and drilling them. I used an s13 swaybar, so I imagine the aftermarket ones will fit. Had to get new universal swaybar brackets (comes with bushing for $20) from energy suspension + a stack of washers to get it mounted though.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: spiderwebfx on 06:06:22 AM / 09-Jul-14
You need 1995 ford escort tie rod ends and S13 tie rods OR S12 tie rods and A1 tie rod ends 
Aftermarket S13 swaybar should work.
Your struts have to be aftermarket coilovers, factory S13 ones will not work. Their diameter is too big.


This is what you need to do to the S14 castor rod brackets. Hope it helps you out.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w157/spiderwebfx/S12/Reference%20Photos/S14_Castor_Rod_Brackets_1.jpg)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w157/spiderwebfx/S12/Reference%20Photos/S14_Castor_Rod_Brackets_2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Does it moo? on 05:04:29 AM / 15-Jul-14
Awesome! You guys rock!

So, new plan:

· A1 tie rods
· Tein tension rods
· S14 tension rod brackets

The coilovers and S13 hubs are already fitted. Now I just need to source a set of S14 tension rod brackets... Any hints on where one could find a pair online (new, preferably in Europe) would be highly appreciated.

And oh, one last question... is the S12 sway bar bolt-on to the S13 control arms? Just as a temporary solution until I get a proper S13 ARB.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: spiderwebfx on 05:23:55 AM / 15-Jul-14
Pretty sure s12 swaybar will work.

Just find second hand s14/s15 tension rod brackets and repaint them to look new again.  I dont know how common they are there but in NZ, theyre always available.

Dont forget you need s13 tension rods. Theyre slightly shorter than s14 ones.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Does it moo? on 07:38:58 PM / 22-Jul-14
Hey, are the A1 tie rods sold anywhere else than here: http://shop.a1racing.com/dgt100.aspx ?

I tried contacting them but didn't get any response.

Just find second hand s14/s15 tension rod brackets and repaint them to look new again.  I dont know how common they are there but in NZ, theyre always available.

Dont forget you need s13 tension rods. Theyre slightly shorter than s14 ones.

There are quite a lot of them, but no parts. Here it's often easier to find a right-hand drive JDM import of any given fun '80s-'90s Japanese car despite that white market equivalents were available at official dealerships. So everything Japanese is grey market, even though Japan is located as far away from where I live as it physically can be.

For example, while Nissan did "officially" sell the S12, S13 and S14 (both kouki and zenki) here, no one is carrying spares. Finding OEM parts, new or used, is often near impossible and when you do, prices are only marginally lower than aftermarket upgrades. It's a major obstacle when OEM is the only option... That's why I'm getting the Tein S13 tension rods instead of OEM. And also the reason I still haven't found any tension rod brackets.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: spiderwebfx on 01:06:14 AM / 23-Jul-14
There are quite a lot of them, but no parts. Here it's often easier to find a right-hand drive JDM import of any given fun '80s-'90s Japanese car despite that white market equivalents were available at official dealerships. So everything Japanese is grey market, even though Japan is located as far away from where I live as it physically can be.

For example, while Nissan did "officially" sell the S12, S13 and S14 (both kouki and zenki) here, no one is carrying spares. Finding OEM parts, new or used, is often near impossible and when you do, prices are only marginally lower than aftermarket upgrades. It's a major obstacle when OEM is the only option... That's why I'm getting the Tein S13 tension rods instead of OEM. And also the reason I still haven't found any tension rod brackets.

I can try find them here and get you a price including freight if you want?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Does it moo? on 12:25:49 AM / 30-Jul-14
You are awesome! Sure thing, throw me a PM if you find a set.
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: superDorifto on 08:01:31 PM / 14-Jun-15
So, I can help add another hybrid s13 front coil set up.

S13 coils
S13 knuckles
S13 ball joints in s12 lcas...a tack weld was needed for each
S12 TC rods
S12 steering rack
S14 outer tie rods ends (isis)
Z33 inner tie rods...shorter overall than s14 and z32s
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Fernandoz on 12:21:34 PM / 09-Sep-15
Is there any way to modify the s13 oem strut to fit into the s12?
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: pakii-afa on 05:34:32 PM / 20-Oct-15
Yes, I've been using a sleeve kit from a sunfire/cavalier to eliminate the upper spring seat. It works for me.

Also it should be noted as super dorifto said that you need to tach weld s13 ball joints into ns12 arms, I was not aware of this my first time and damaged my car...
Title: Re: The Suspension Build Guide For Your S12
Post by: Frenchy308 on 12:09:19 AM / 28-Oct-17
If you have an s13 front subframe how would that affect the coil over set up? I got s13 lca (currently extended (bad idea way too much wide, i got new stock s13 arms)) , ball joints, knuckles, q45 brakes and s14 inners with maxima outters (i believe). Stock tension rod brackets with sketchy s13 rods... I want to put the s14 brackets and s13 curved rods in to make it less death trappy... Will it work?