Nissan Rwd Manual Transmissions

Started by BullsEye, 01:54:48 AM / 19-Jan-06

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BullsEye

I have read many post pretaining to manual shift transmissions.
This information is long overdue.

There are two types of manual transmissions.
....Non-Syncronized
....Syncronized

Three types of gears
....Straight teeth
....Herring Bone teeth
....Helical teeth

Straight= noisy \"whine\"

Herring Bone= very quite, looks like the bones from a Herring fish. Citroen\'s emblem. They used herring bone gears, and may still, don\'t know and don\'t care.

Helical= quite and is the most common type found in syncronized transmissions. Straight but cut at an angle. Also used in the various gears found in automatic transmissions.


Most of the non syncro type tranny\'s can be found in the following
....Heavy Trucks aka. tractor trailers/18 wheelers, motorcycles, race cars, farm equipment and boats.
Almost all of these use straight cut gears. There may be a few that use \"herring bone\" cut gears.
Also, straight cut gears \"whine\" herring bone cut gears do not \"whine\"


Now, for syncro fun :headbang:

Most syncro tranny\'s are found in cars and light trucks.

Reverse does NOT count! Almost 99.9% of all reverse gears are straight cut!!!
..That\'s why reverse \"whines\".
.. There was one car maker that syncronized reverse :yikes: But I can\'t remember which one it was. :confused:  :cheers:
Years ago the british used a straight cut non-syncro first gear with the rest being syncro\'ed. The americans did the same with thier 3/4 and 1 ton trucks.
And there within came the phrase \"Fully syncronized\" transmission.

There are two types of syncronizers

Porsche type and Warner type
..The porsche type reacts slower but is more smooth than the warner type.
...Porshce type snycros dislike being \"speed shifted\"
...Warner type is great for drag racing.

Finally to the Nissan transmissions.

The syncro and gear ratio information for the following transmissions is from the Haynes 240Z,260Z & 280Z manual. Other statments do not apply!
F4W71A,F4W71B,FS5C71A & FS571B

F4W71A  Warner
240Z
1st   3.549:1
2nd   2.197:1
3rd   1.420:1
4th   1.000:1
Rev   3.164:1

..Generally a weak tranny. Weaker than the 71B

F4W71B  Warner
260Z
1st   3.592:1
2nd   2.246:1
3rd   1.415:1
4th   1.000:1
Rev   3.657:1

280Z
1st    3.321:1
2nd    2.077:1
3rd     1.308:1
4th     1.000:1
Rev     3.382:1

..Not as weak as the 71A. Basically the 4 speed model of the S12 71B

FS5C71A  Porsche
240Z/260Z
1st    2.957:1
2nd   1.857:1
3rd    1.311:1
4th    1.000:1
5th    0.852:1

260Z 2+2
1st     2.906:1
2nd    1.902:1
3rd     1.308:1
4th     1.000:1
5th     0.864:1
Rev     3.382:1

..I have no idea about the strenght or weakness of these transmissions.
..I have only driven one car that had one of these trannys. It was a S110.
..That was over 20 years ago!
..I do know that the shift pattern is different though. They have a \"dog leg\" 1st.


R  2  4
1  3  5

Instead of the \"normal\" pattern

1 3 5
2 4 R

FS5W71B Warner
280Z
1st    3.321:1
2nd    2.077:1
3rd    1.308:1
4th    1.000:1
5th    0.864:1
Rev    3.382:1

84-86 S12
1st    3.592:1
2nd    2.057:1
3rd     1.361:1
4th     1.000.:1
5th     0.821:1
Rev    3.657:1

[url]http://www.club-s12.org/board/showthread.php?t=6571&highlight=transmission+ratios[/a]

Reply #5  Mr.200   Thanks Matt

If my memory is correct even the 4X4 pickups with this tranny has its own gear set too!



..Weak, not only the same bearing issuse as the F4W71B but 5th gear likes loosing its teeth from the counter shaft. Same tranny as the 84-86 S12\'s but with a different gear set.

Two different lenght trannies availible
Short 4X4 trucks only
Standard everything else.

FS5W71C   Warner
1st      3.321:1
2nd     1.902:1
3rd      1.308:1
4th      1:000:1
5th      0.759:1
Rev     3.382:1

[url]http://www.club-s12.org/board/showthread.php?t=9505[/a]

Good thread and Dan covers alot of information.
If you pay attention to the gear ratios that he list, you will notice that the 5th gear ratio for the 71B differs from what Mr. 200 listed. He also list a different 5th gear ratio for the 71C depended on application. 6 cyl vs 4 cyl.
The Z31,S12(VG30E),S13 and S14 use the gear set that I have listed, The Nissan parts breakdown for US model S12 with the 71C tranny internals show that only the syncros and speedometer driven gear differ between the 6cyl and 4 cyl cars. As of the writing of this post I nave no idea if the pickups and/or pathfinders use a different gear set.

The 71C trannys will toast the bearings if the gear oil is not changed. This seems to happen around ~150k miles.

For the 71B and 71C model trannys with a different 5th gear ratio and all other ratios remaning the same it is nothing more than a simple gear change.
5th gear is a seperate bolt on set and not dependant upon the cluster set of the first 4 gears.

Weight
71B 63~lbs
71C 100~ lbs

With modifications a B front work with a C back and a C front will work with a B back.


FS5R90A aka BW T-5  Warner
no ratios, junk, who cares.

FS5R30A    ???
Z32, 87 on Z31. VG pickups and pathfinders???? just not sure.
It can withstand 700+hp from a vg30dett.

Throughout the range and time Nissan has offered many different gear sets, even within a model range. It will take time and a lot of searching to complete this list.
Closing thoughts I will leave for another time and thread.
87 V6  (Extended coffee break)
78 280Z (degreasing it one fingernail at a time)




Jeff [cleaning grease from fingernails]

FlawleZ

Ummm..Just a couple things...

The FS5W71C is a Nissan tranny, not a Warner. The FS5R30A is also a Nissan tranny. All of the FS5W71 series are Nissan trannies in fact. Also the FS5R30A ONLY came on 87+ Turbo Z31's.  The R32 also uses the FS5R30A and I think the R33 does as well.  It's nearly bullet proof.
9:1 T3/T4 NA2T

JonB

According to my 85' Nissan U.S Service manual. The S12 FS5W71B has two differnt ratios:
CA20e:
1st:3.321
2nd:1.902
3rd:1.308
4th:1.000
5th:0.833

CA18et:
1st:3.592
2nd:2.057
3rd:1.361
4th:1.000
5th:0.813

According to my 86' Nissan U.S service manual. The S12 FS5W71C has two different ratios:
CA20e:
1st:3.321
2nd:1.902
3rd:1.308
4th:1.000
5th:0.838

CA18et:
1st:3.592
2nd:2.057
3rd:1.361
4th:1.000
5th:0.821

May help; 89' Nissan 240SX FS5W71C:
KA24e:
1st:3.321
2nd:1.902
3rd:1.308
4th:1.000
5th:0.759

I could probably dig up more, but as you can see there is quite a few avalible ratio options.

The Moon

Datsun/Nissan Transmissions
           
MANUAL

Trans Type 1st    2nd     3rd    4th    5th    other    Reverse *Notes*

4sp RWD    

F4W63L     3.382  2.013  1.312    1.000    -.---    -.---    3.365    *710*
F4W71A     3.549  2.197  1.420    1.000    -.---    -.---    3.364    *240Z*
F4W71B     3.382  2.077  1.308    1.000    -.---    -.---    3.382    *240Z/810/Maxima/620*
F4W56A     3.757  2.169  1.404    1.000    -.---    -.---    3.640    *B210/210*
F4W60L     3.513  2.170  1.378    1.000    -.---    -.---    3.764    *210*
F4W63L     3.382  2.013  1.312  1.000   -.---    -.---    3.365   *510*
F4W63L     3.657  2.177  1.419    1.000    -.---   -.---   3.638    *510 Optional*

5sp RWD        

FS5W60L    3.513  2.170  1.378    1.000    0.846    -.---    3.464    *210/510*
FS5W63A    3.382  2.013  1.312    1.000    0.854    -.---    3.570    *S110/610/510*
FS5W71B    3.321  2.077  1.308    1.000    0.833    -.---    3.382    *S12*
FS5W71C    3.321  2.077  1.308    1.000    0.864    -.---     3.636     *S12/280Z*
FS5W71C    3.321  1.902  1.308    1.000    0.759    -.---     3.636    *Z31 N/A*
RS5R30A    3.214  1.925  1.302    1.000    0.752    -.---     3.369    *Z32*
FS5R30A    3.324  2.077  1.360    1.000    0.711    -.---   3.382    *88-89 Z31 Turbo*
FS5R30A    3.324  2.077  1.360    1.000    0.751    -.---   3.382    *87 Z31 Turbo*
*89-86 Pathfinder 2WD with 6 Cyl*
*87-96 Pathfinder 4X4 with 6 Cyl*
*86-96 Pickup 2WD with 6 Cyl*
*86-96 Pickup 4X4 with 6 Cyl*
FS5R90A    3.350  2.056  1.376    1.000    0.752    -.---     3.153    *84-86 Z31 Turbo*

    
AUTOMATIC

Trans type 1st    2nd     3rd    4th    5th    other    Reverse *Notes*


3sp RWD

3N71B      2.458  1.458  1.000    -.---    -.---    -.---    2.182    *240Z/S12/510/710/810* Maxima/210/620

4sp RWD        

L4N71B       2.458  1.458  1.000    0.686    -.---    -.---    2.182    *Maxima*
R3W56A       3.380  1.734  1.000    -.---    -.---    -.---    3.640    *B210*
R3W65       3.263  1.458  1.000    -.---    -.---    -.---    3.570    *610*

~information from www.datsuns.com~
Second times a charm... right?!?!

lt1_performance

#4
I was reading through some posts a found that the 86.5-88 (MK2) 200sx has the "C" trans like the S13. Is this the same trans? I thought that the S13 trans is longer than the S12's, correct?

Will an S13 aftermarket short shifter fit on an S12 "C" trans?

zilvia_brothers

#5
The S13 'C' trans is indeed longer than an S12 'C' trans.

im using a stock s13 shifter...i like the height of it compared to the stock s12 ones
"keep'n it simple with being old skool!!!"

01-present; 87 200sx sev6
R.I.P. 2003-2006; 1993 Acura Integra gs-r
RIP 09-2014; 2007 civic si sedan
2014-present; 2013 mazda5 6spd

200sxkitcar

#6
Yes an aftermarket S13 shifter will, thats what I have on my C trans right now, and its great.

Depending on which ones you get, some of the Ebay ones that are a full-top-plate design does not have one of the holes in the right places, but the type that just clip on with the four screws are fine, and work nicely  
Sterling Picton

sinestro

my ka bellhouse ca gearbox trans combination hybrid is exactly 33 inches, the s12 that the gearbox was from was a 86' xe mk2 model, the ka bellhouse fits on my 93' ka24de motor perfectly. my trans uses the 240's shifter, i popped the snap-rings apart in both shifter bases and swaped the shifter itself
"You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat."



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nunquam dormio




sicj

#8
I have both trannys. Here's the pics:


Obviously, their S13 200sx is known as a 240sx in the Americas.



The US spec C trans for the s13 is different from the JDM trans, as the shifter plate holes are aligned differently between the two.

So there is really three types of C trans' but only two different lengths

brewster240

#9
its 180sx/silvia in japan.

the 200sx s13's are the european market cars. and australia too i think.

EightySix200SX

OLD THREAD BUT S12 AUTOS CAME WITH L4N71B'S MINE HAS ONE
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ANYTHING  LOOKIKG FOR :  PARTS IN STOCK CLICK HERE
NEED S12 PARTS NOT LISTED IN MY THREAD? EMAIL lowXIIposition@yahoo.com OR Facebook US: www.facebook.com/need12parts/
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Quote from: fyneyoungstunna on 07:29:16 PM / 09-Jul-11
Damn let a Nig have a moment of glory b4 you start fucking with him.

ross

Quote from: EightySix200SX
OLD THREAD BUT S12 AUTOS CAME WITH L4N71B'S MINE HAS ONE
so how strong are auto tranny? can i bolt it up to a 350+ hp KA?

EightySix200SX

#12
im not sure.... i would prolly use a ka24de L4N71B.... and not the 20e's as it is a bit older.
ÃÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ,«LOW.XII.POSITIONÃÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ,».nostalgic car culture & club ÃÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ,¦est.2004
ÃÆ'ââ,¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ,¡lowfunsexytime! Global New & Used Parts Sales/Distribution

CLUB-S12 FEEDBACK RATING +72! CLICK HERE
ANYTHING  LOOKIKG FOR :  PARTS IN STOCK CLICK HERE
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Quote from: fyneyoungstunna on 07:29:16 PM / 09-Jul-11
Damn let a Nig have a moment of glory b4 you start fucking with him.

seishuku

As far as I know, they can handle a decent amount of power (250-350 max maybe), but any performance auto trans shop should be able to build it up to take the power.
New clutches and bands, I doubt you'll find an upgraded planetary gear, but you never know.
Matt W.
Daily: 2015 Ecoboost Mustang
Previous Daily: 2011 Camaro V6 (tree fell on it)
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brewster240

#14
some pics that might be useful for future reference. big trans is a s13 ka24 trans, shorter one is a d21 (hardbody) pickup trans. came in the 86.5-97 nissan pickups, 2wd 4cyl. z24 and ka24e





just like the other transmissions, sr and ca bellhousings can be swapped onto this. the older ones use a cable speedo sensor which is mounted on the left side of the case. im not sure about the newer versions.

on the s13 trans i measured about 31 1/2 inches from front of trans to middle of shifter hole
on the truck trans i measured about 25 3/4 inches from front of trans to middle of shifter hole

200sxkitcar

#15
S12 transmissions are all shorter than the S13 transmissions. They are *compatible*... in the case of people swapping to S13 engines (KA or SR), you can use the S13 bellhousing on the S12 "C" transmission.

On the left there is an S13 transmission.  That's an S12 "B" trans on the right, which is a *bit* shorter than an S12 "C" trans.


HERE are some pics of S12 C and S12 B transmissions side by side, the "C" on the left and the "B" on the right.




Ratio info

FAQ: Comparing the FS5W71B & FS5W71C Transmissions, "B" vs. "C"

Nissan used two different transmissions during the production of the S12. The FS5W71B (also known as the "B" transmission) was used from 1984 - early 1986. The FS5W71C (also known as the "C" transmission) was used from late 1986 - 1988.

The "B" transmission was a leftover from Nissan's 1970's vehicles. It was used in RWD Datsun applications like the 280Z, the 620 Trucks and the S110 200SX. It was designed to handle horsepower, but not a lot, although it has worked reliably for some people in higher than stock power levels. The design used an external shifter linkage and a smaller casing for the reduced size of the gears inside.

The "C" transmission was implemented in the MKI to MKII crossover period in late 1986. This transmission was designed in the early 80's to be the non-turbo 300ZX transmission. It featured an internal gear linkage and stronger gears to hold the added horsepower of the 300ZX's VG30E. In late 1986, Nissan adapted the FS5W71C to fit the CA20E and the CA18ET, and phased out the old FS5W71B.

The FS5W71C lived a long life in Nissan's lineup. When the S12 and the Z31 were cancelled, the transmission was adapted to the KA24 engine and was used all the way through the 240SX production up until 1998, and then continued on after that in the Xterra until 2002. This means any short shifter made for a 240SX will also work in your "C" transmission equipped S12.

People in the 300ZX world have been having troubles with the Borg-Warner transmission that came on the early 300ZX turbo. The Borg-Warner was supposed to be "bulletproof", but apparently it's junk. They have found that switching to the non-turbo's FS5W71C tranny has been stronger and lasted longer than the Borg-Warner, even though it was designed for less power. It's a testament to Nissan's designs and quality control.

cut and pasted from an old sticky written by Dan
Sterling Picton

200sxkitcar

#16
Quote from: lt1_performance
So your saying that the trans from and early non-turbo 300zx is a direct replacement for the MKII 200's with the "C" trans? Switching the bellhousing of course to fit the CA20E?


The best way to find out what transmission came in a particular car is to look at the metal tag on the firewall. Among other things, it lists the VIN, engine code, and transmission code. If it says FS5W71C, then its got a "C" tranny. I'm not sure what the trans code for the other tranny is, but the "borg warner" trans he is referring to is a t-5.

The t-5 in the 300zx wasn't a "World Class t-5", thats why many people feel its weaker. The difference between the two is the World Class t-5 is stronger, but they are basically the same trans. People often confuse the two and think they are the same. The term "bullet-proof" is associated with the World Class version. A more logical choice for the 300zx crowd is to get a t-5 out of a 8cyl mustang, swap the bellhousing and possibly the tail shaft(not sure there) and you have a good strong transmission. Don't use the 4cyl t-5, its not world class and is just as weak as the 300zx trans. It also has a different 1st gear ratio, which is ideal for low-powered cars, but not for higher powered cars.

If I'm not mistaken, the WC t-5 is good for upwards of 400 ft-lbs.

cut and pasted out of same sticky, posted by bleuoval64
Sterling Picton

200sxkitcar

How to inspect your transmission- separating the rear section off the trans.  good info, thanks Joe!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muRXOXWFh4U
Sterling Picton

datzenmike

Quote from: BullsEye....
..I have no idea about the strenght or weakness of these transmissions.
..I have only driven one car that had one of these trannys. It was a S110.
..That was over 20 years ago!
..I do know that the shift pattern is different though. They have a "dog leg" 1st.
R  2  4
1  3  5
Instead of the "normal" pattern
1 3 5
2 4 R

This would be the stock FS5W63A tranny used on the first gen '77-'79 200sx and a very rare option on the 710 and HLA10. It  came with L and Z series bolt patterns. Love or hate the shift pattern, it did favor road racing with its quick 4th to 5th shift and rarely used 1st.

Right away the number 63 indicates much smaller diameter gears than an FS5W71B and C. In fact this tranny has the same ratios and gear size as the original '68-'73 510 F4W63 and the same length at about 26", so a direct 5spd swap. It will barely handle the L20B output.

On the left is the 8 bolt front cover from an FS5W63A dogleg. Compare it to the 5 bolt cover from a pre '84 FS5W71B type and you can readily see the main and counter shafts center lines are closer.

 

On the left is the same 'B' type with dogleg on right. Note the smaller gears, main drive bearing and much smaller counter shaft bearing used in the dogleg.



A small bit of 200sx history.

JonB

Can you always ID the S12 "B" from the S12 "C" by the shifter?