Club-S12 International S12OC United Kingdom ClubS12 France S12Silvia Australia S12.org.ua Eastern Europe S12 of Sweden S12 Japan BBS
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?  (Read 34507 times)

Offline jeffwins24

  • BANNED Users
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Miami, florida
  • Posts: 2,946
    • http://
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #40 on: 07:21:38 PM / 10-May-09 »
a VG30DE is more expensive in parts then a VG30E.

if you think it's a pain to put work into a VG30E it's going to be even more of a pain changing oil on a VG30DE in a S12... all the work and money only for 50hp more? plus the added weight means you need a new suspension setup.

all the auto trannys from the Z's are shit. even the Z32 tranny's once you past i think it's 500 - 600 (correct me if I'm wrong as i can't SPECIALLY REMEMBER) they take a dump.

theres a transmission shop online that does power upgrades for auto trannys, it's levelten.com i think, these ppl build the same transmissions you see in the 600 - 1500hp auto cars.

if you REALLY REALLY want boost go supercharger (I'm talking about the small ones that look like turbos paxtons, vortecs, etc) hey boost is boost right?

I mean really, everyone knows a turbo won't fit in a S12 so why not get a compact supercharger? at least it's boosted. thats what MC did i think and then switched to a rear mount turbo setup, he's making great power and he doesn't even have a VG30DETT just a normal VG30ET.

the point is it's gonna cost alot of money and work only for 40 - 60hp more.

but as I said before, it's your car do as you wish.
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *

Offline s12guy

  • n00b
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #41 on: 07:37:12 PM / 10-May-09 »
don't get me wrong I would love to build a vg30et. But my Se is Auto and thats not going to last. plus cams, cam gears and a nistune set up will cast you over 1000 for all that.
and thats just a start to build a good vg30et.

A vg30de is going to take up space but I have a cherry picker and tools so thats not a problem.

 Right now I'm very torn on what I want to do for a swap. But I know I want more H.P. I would like to have 350 h.p.  Any Swap in a se is a pain. It make we want to break down and buy a Z31 turbo.
« Last Edit: 07:40:18 PM / 10-May-09 by s12guy »

Offline jeffwins24

  • BANNED Users
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Miami, florida
  • Posts: 2,946
    • http://
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #42 on: 07:48:37 PM / 10-May-09 »
again, a supercharger would yield the power you want and a stand alone all together would be great (stand alone's like megasquirt and stuff like that)

how do you plan on getting 350hp out of a N/A VG30DE?
« Last Edit: 07:51:23 PM / 10-May-09 by jeffwins24 »
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *

Offline s12guy

  • n00b
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #43 on: 07:54:10 PM / 10-May-09 »
the plan on swapping a vg30de was to get it in and running and then the next year to buy a just a vg30dett engine and ecu with a hand full of bolt ons.
the na vg30e would be a decent engine to lightly boost. but Im still auto. I have every thing to do a 5 speed swap but a vg bell housing.

Offline jeffwins24

  • BANNED Users
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Miami, florida
  • Posts: 2,946
    • http://
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #44 on: 07:59:37 PM / 10-May-09 »
ahh i see. well best of luck to you on your VG dohc journey, let us know how everything went, and what problems you had to over come.
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *

Offline s12guy

  • n00b
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #45 on: 08:10:24 PM / 10-May-09 »
The dohc swap will be a while. I'm still finishing my vg30e. It should have decent power. I wish that guy have those injector rails in stock. I would pick up a set right away. Thats the main part that stops me from building a vg30et. with my na block. I know bartco had said something about makeing some but I've never seen or heard of a finished product.
I'm thinking a 30-50 shot should make for some good fun for now.


Damn my small 180cc dual feed injectors. why couldn't they have made them top feed like most decent engines. I have a set of rails to convert the vg30e to side feed but you have to have the lower plenum machined to make them fit and then come up with custom seals.

Offline jeffwins24

  • BANNED Users
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Miami, florida
  • Posts: 2,946
    • http://
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #46 on: 08:16:20 PM / 10-May-09 »
get some top feed VG injectors and you can pretty much put any injector on it.



if you really want i can look up the info on what years they came on.
« Last Edit: 08:17:13 PM / 10-May-09 by jeffwins24 »
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *

Offline s12guy

  • n00b
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #47 on: 08:26:01 PM / 10-May-09 »
ya I thought about that too, Most of the guys who have them know what they have and then they want over 100 bucks for them. Think Can I cut the dual feed lines off and use only the top? Or would the top feed lines be too small to feed a proper sized injector? I have a spare set so it would hurt to look into.

Offline jeffwins24

  • BANNED Users
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Miami, florida
  • Posts: 2,946
    • http://
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #48 on: 08:37:42 PM / 10-May-09 »
Quote from: s12guy
ya I thought about that too, Most of the guys who have them know what they have and then they want over 100 bucks for them. Think Can I cut the dual feed lines off and use only the top? Or would the top feed lines be too small to feed a proper sized injector? I have a spare set so it would hurt to look into.

junkyard.

go looking for them in the maxima's pathfinder, 300ZX's, and anything nissan car that came with a sohc VG.

hell the guy up front doesn't even know that they are can charges you like 10 or 5 bucks.

if you look hard enough you'll find them for really cheap  

with top feeds, you can use any injector and hose (make sure to use clamps)

what i was gonna do with mine is i was gonna take it to a shop and have them port and polish it (the insides not the outside)

honestly is really doesn't matter I would prefer top feed over side feed anyday of the week.
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *

Offline s12guy

  • n00b
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #49 on: 08:41:15 PM / 10-May-09 »
I Know a guys who can build every thing I need to build a badass vg30et. intake, fuel rails, manifolds, and exhaust. he has a cnc machine and can weld anything you need. He would be the guy I go to If I do choose to build my vg30e. But his prices are a lil high. But Your getting what you pay for. I'm not set on a vg30de, The vg30e has potential. I've been going back and forth on both engines.

I'm not worried about my lower plenum for now. It's ported and polished. The Se's upper manifold is made to save space not for power, So that would have to go to make a decent power.

Offline jeffwins24

  • BANNED Users
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Miami, florida
  • Posts: 2,946
    • http://
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #50 on: 08:41:34 PM / 10-May-09 »
here some more food for thought.

the VG30DE uses 8 head studs each head and the VG30E/et uses 13 per head.


(helps with sealment which is why a stock factory VG can hit 500hp without blowing thr head gasket or the headstuds first}

actually if i could i would take your plenum, any plenum is better then a Z31 plenum

http://www.redz31.net/pages/plenums.html
« Last Edit: 08:43:51 PM / 10-May-09 by jeffwins24 »
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *

Offline s12guy

  • n00b
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #51 on: 08:44:25 PM / 10-May-09 »
didn't know that about the vg30de. That does make me lean towards the vg30e. do you know any one who make a good set of cams that isn't 500 bucks?
« Last Edit: 08:44:41 PM / 10-May-09 by s12guy »

Offline jeffwins24

  • BANNED Users
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Miami, florida
  • Posts: 2,946
    • http://
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #52 on: 08:51:43 PM / 10-May-09 »
Quote from: s12guy
didn't know that about the vg30de. That does make me lean towards the vg30e. do you know any one who make a good set of cams that isn't 500 bucks?


the stock turbo cams and pathfinder cams are pretty good for stock cams but double check on the info on jasons' site for the cams.

hptt://redz31.net
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *

Offline s12guy

  • n00b
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #53 on: 08:58:50 PM / 10-May-09 »
#

Motorsport Auto:
# Stage 1 Turbo 262/256 .420"/.420" $169.95 Exchange only
# Stage 2 Turbo 270/262 .420"/.420" $169.95 Exchange only
# Stage 1 Non-Turbo 260/260 .420"/.420" $169.95 Exchange only
# Stage 2 Non-Turbo 270/270 .427"/.427" $169.95 Exchange only
# Stage 3 Non-Turbo 280/280 .435"/.435" $169.95 Exchange only

I'm going to have to look into these.

Offline jeffwins24

  • BANNED Users
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Miami, florida
  • Posts: 2,946
    • http://
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #54 on: 09:06:34 PM / 10-May-09 »
wait what site is that?
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *

Offline s12guy

  • n00b
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #55 on: 09:56:26 PM / 10-May-09 »

Offline tommy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Location: Montreal, Canada
  • Posts: 706
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #56 on: 11:29:20 PM / 10-May-09 »
Sorry, but the DE isn't any heavier than the E, maybe by 20 lbs, so stop chewing on hamburgers or throw that big GT45 turbo outta the way, it must weight at least 20 lbs by itself!!! Ah, and a DE cost 1k$, just a little more than this stupid turbo of yours and you'll get more hp than you will really ever need in a s-12 with a STOCK vg30de.  If you own a good MIG welder and can wire a car, this swap will be a lot more cost effective then trying to boost a N/A s-12 vg30e.  

And the clearance problem, the only thing that will be tight, is the clearance you'll have between the struts towers and the valvecovers, it will fit, it's been done, but it'll be tight.  So don't worry about oil changes, for those of you that never did this, the filter is ON the SIDE of the block, not sticking on the valve cover's side right above the exhaust.  So just lift the car like EVERYBODY does and get UNDER the car, you'll have no problem.  

Man JEFF I'm starting to wonder if you actually read yourself back before posting, those shit you are saying don't make any sense, even if you read it backwards....

Oh and btw a centrifugal supercharger (yes that how those are called) will require a custom bracket, custom pulley and all the above mentionned (ECU, Fuel rail, injectors, IC, piping, etc...), I do not think it's easier than welding 2 engine mount and 2 tranny mounts, or you could throw an Xterra supercharger, but you'll have to swap the crank to use the right pulley and cut the hood, that's even easier..... god!

Just my 2 cents!

Tom
« Last Edit: 11:30:14 PM / 10-May-09 by tommy »
Corolla TE31 1977 (traded)
Corolla KE20 1974 (Project)

Offline jeffwins24

  • BANNED Users
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Miami, florida
  • Posts: 2,946
    • http://
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #57 on: 11:56:56 PM / 10-May-09 »
Quote from: tommy
Sorry, but the DE isn't any heavier than the E, maybe by 20 lbs, so stop chewing on hamburgers or throw that big GT45 turbo outta the way, it must weight at least 20 lbs by itself!!! Ah, and a DE cost 1k$, just a little more than this stupid turbo of yours and you'll get more hp than you will really ever need in a s-12 with a STOCK vg30de.  If you own a good MIG welder and can wire a car, this swap will be a lot more cost effective then trying to boost a N/A s-12 vg30e.  

And the clearance problem, the only thing that will be tight, is the clearance you'll have between the struts towers and the valvecovers, it will fit, it's been done, but it'll be tight.  So don't worry about oil changes, for those of you that never did this, the filter is ON the SIDE of the block, not sticking on the valve cover's side right above the exhaust.  So just lift the car like EVERYBODY does and get UNDER the car, you'll have no problem.  

Man JEFF I'm starting to wonder if you actually read yourself back before posting, those shit you are saying don't make any sense, even if you read it backwards....

Oh and btw a centrifugal supercharger (yes that how those are called) will require a custom bracket, custom pulley and all the above mentionned (ECU, Fuel rail, injectors, IC, piping, etc...), I do not think it's easier than welding 2 engine mount and 2 tranny mounts, or you could throw an Xterra supercharger, but you'll have to swap the crank to use the right pulley and cut the hood, that's even easier..... god!

Just my 2 cents!

Tom

ANY BOOSTED ENGINE REQUIRES THOSE MODS your just stating whats already been said over a billion times when you go boost on a N/A motor.

in my opinion it would me cheaper and less time consuming to supercharge a VG30E then drop and wire a VG30DE. and not everyone has access to a mig welder. as far as ECu i already said it, a standalone or if you don't like DIY stuff go and get a tune at a shop (good luck finding someone who tune's VG S12's)

I NEVER EVER had to lift any of my cars to get to the oil filter including my VG30ET, CA20E, KA24E, VG30E.


look at how much spare that takes up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what are you talking about tight fit? it BARELY FITS AT ALL!




the VG30DE/TT weighs alot more then 20 pounds over the VG30E/ET.

a centrifugal S/C may require all that work but how much more work does it cost to put a S12 VG on boost without mounting it near the tail pipe?

i think the S/C is a better idea over all, instant torque, instant power. pretty good.


look i don't care what you think, it's simple fact. a VG30DE/TT is not a cost effective nor a simple swap. and what if you DON'T have welding equipment? i guess your gonna need to pay someone for that.

the VG30DE/TT is not a practical swap is what I'm trying to say all for 100 - 50hp look at the money your about to spend.

- engine
- wiring
- rebuild
- driveshaft
- tranny rebuild
- welding
- custom crossmember
- radiator
- pusher and puller fans

look at how much you already spent? and if it's a twin turbo were not even done doing all the pricing.

with that much you could have a VG30ET nearing 400 - 600hp range.
« Last Edit: 12:04:40 AM / 11-May-09 by jeffwins24 »
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *

Offline seishuku

  • 1998CC's of fun!
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Beloit, WI, USA
  • Posts: 4,922
  • Vehicle: 1987 Nissan S12
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #58 on: 12:01:10 AM / 11-May-09 »
FYI, a centrifugal supercharger isn't instant, it has some lag to it. It's just like a turbo, only crank driven instead of gas driven.
Those are an actual compressor, roots blowers are instant because they are positive displacement pumps.
Matt W.
Daily: 2011 Camaro V6
Previous: 2013 VW Jetta TDI super polluter (getting bought back)

Offline jeffwins24

  • BANNED Users
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Miami, florida
  • Posts: 2,946
    • http://
Vg30de/vg30dett In S12?
« Reply #59 on: 12:05:37 AM / 11-May-09 »
oh and by the way turbos weigh a little more then 20 pounds try 35 - 70 pounds (smallest to the biggest you can find)

any by the way my stupid turbo can make more power then a VG30DE N/A anytime it wants to. no one ever said car tuning and modding cars was cheap.

and a turbo WILL take a HUGE bite out of your wallet, this goes for any turbo.
« Last Edit: 12:11:10 AM / 11-May-09 by jeffwins24 »
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *