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Author Topic: Megasquirting  (Read 25769 times)

Offline Empedocles99

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Megasquirting
« on: 04:56:34 AM / 26-Mar-07 »
Dunno if anyone cares, but I'm going to use this thread, over time, to detail my Megasquirt adventures in my mk1 1985 Notchback ca20e.

If you don't know what it is, it's an aftermarket fully tunable (and inexpensive) fuel and ignition controller. You can read up on it here: http://www.megasquirt.info/

I'm going to run megasquirt'n'spark on the megasquirt 1 v3.0 pcb, so I can control spark.

I bought my megasquirt hardware at: http://www.diyautotune.com

Hardware mods:

wiring harness plugs removed from spare ca20e ecu.
ka24e throttle body (on its way from ebay)
Spare ca20e distributor with rpm & throttle advance disabled (on its way, bought from COandCA)
Cold air intake build out of intercooler piping with vacuum lines added. Throttle body outside diameter is 2.5", all my intake pipe is 2.5", and the pipe will end in a k&n universal filter (RC-9420).
Electric fan out of a civic.
25W 5 Ohm dropping resistors 825F5R0 — OHMITE — Wirewound Resistor
ACDELCO 15292 Accessory Drive Belt 88934275 (to remove fan pulley, unconfirmed fit) (Is the fan pulley connected to the water pump? I never did this one)

I spent the weekend reviewing the megasquirt manuals, and FSM. I have most of the wiring down (subject to experimentation/verification, don't blame me if you blow up your car, the ones marked with ? I am not completely sure of):

Stock CA20e pinout:

Looking at the back of the ECU where the harness plugs in, there are two plugs:

Left Plug:
115 114 ---- 113 112
 111  X  X  108 107
106 X  X 103 102 101

Right Plug:
10  9  8  7  6  5  4  3  2  1
20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11

Pin, Color, Description
Code: [Select]
1) (P)  ??? Check Engine Light (Couldn't determine exactly what this is for)
2) (W)      Intake Air Temp
3) (Y/G)    Coolant Temp
4) (B)      O2 Sensor +
5) (B)      O2 Sensor GND
6) (Y/L)  ? Common wire for Intake Air Temp and MAF sensor (assumed to be +5V or +12V)
7) (LG/B) ? Provides signal/power to: Power Steering Oil Pressure Switch, Heater Fan, "Lightning Switch". I am not sure if this needs to be connected or not.
8) (G/Y)    Throttle Position Sensor switch: idle
9) (B/Y)    Start signal in to ECU (+12V when START in ignition switch)
10) (L/W)   Throttle Position Sensor swtich: full throttle
11) (G)     MAF #1
12) (G/R)   Throttle Position Sensor switch: Ecu output (assumed to be +5V or +12V)
13) (Y/R)   A/T Unit (I assume this means Automatic Transmission)
14) (G/OR)  Transmission Neutral Switch (GND when switch is on)
15) (L/Y)   MAF #2
16) (Y/R)   MAF #3
17) (G/R)   Distributor output signal (controls the twin/single spark system, and also modifies timing in the Auto Trans model)
18) (BR)    Check Connector (Not used)
19) (LG)    Check Connector (Not used)
20) (L)     Tachometer signal

101) (W/L)  Injector #4 GND/Signal
102) (B)    Ground
103) (B)    Ground
106) (B)    Fuel Pump GND/Signal (Should be connected to a relay! Megasquirt can't deal with the current on this wire)
107) (W/R)  Injector #1 GND/Signal
108) (B/W)  Injectors +
111) (Y/W)  Idle Up (turns on under high electrical load to stabilize idle)
112) (W)    Injector #2 GND/Signal
113) (Y)    Injector #3 GND/Signal
114) (L/R)  Air Regulator (Should be on when fuel pump is on, according to FSM)
115) (LG/B) EFI Relay switch signal

Megasquirt wiring:

Megasquirt is wired using a DB37 cable (a serial cable using up to 37 wires).
See here for reference: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3assemble.htm

Here is how I plan to wire, notation is Megasquirt Pin -> ca20e wire harness pin:

MS    ca20e
7, 8, 9, 17, 18, 19 -> Engine Block Ground
20 -> GM Air Temp Sensor in custom cold air intake
21 -> 3
22 -> ka24e TPS pigtail (variable resistor)
23 -> 4
24 -> 20
26 -> ka24e TPS pigtail (variable resistor)
28 -> 115 (main relay power)
30 -> 111
31 -> Coil #2 Negative Terminal (instead of distributor)
32 -> 101
33 -> 107
34 -> 112
35 -> 113
36 -> Coil #1 Negative Terminal (instead of distributor)
37 -> fuel pump relay: 114 (air regulator) + 106 (fuel pump)  (I am going to wire in a relay in to the wiring harness to deal with these, since the OEM Ecu can handle more current from 114 and 106 than the megasquirt can for these pins... there is no fuel pump relay in the car, essentially, and megasquirt requires one).

Fuel Pump Relay:
One each of the switching wires connected to: (ca 115) Positive and (ms 37) Gnd/Neg
The 'Switched On' wire connected to: (ca 114 & ca 106) Positive
The 'Common Switched' wire connected to: (ca 102) Gnd/Neg



MegaSquirt assembly notes
Megasquirt 1 CPU on v3 pcb:
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3assemble.htm

22) I did not install the IAC stepper control, since we have on/off idle air equipment on the ca20e.

50) It says you must choose between
   1) Hall/Optical/etc. or
   2) VR (Variable Reluctor)
   We have a distributor/points system, so you should do 50a or 50b. 51 is optional in the case of ca20e (and won't be of any benefit unless you swap to a different engine with VR)
   You must then choose one of:
   a) Hall/optical or points without a coil connection (ie.: Megasquirt drives the coil) or
   b) coil negative terminal/points trigger
   I chose (a) because I plan on using Megasquirt to trigger the coil, not the distributor. I am not completely sure on this, but because the mk1 distributor runs an IC  to trigger the coils anyways, then you may be able to always just choose (a) even if you are not triggering the coils with Megasquirt.
 
50a) It says that most people don't need D2, but it should be jumpered. I installed it, on accident. I will remove and jumper this location if there is a problem.

51) Did not install the Variable Reluctor circuit (even though it was recommended, it is optional if triggering off of distributor points)

52) Install the jumpers "For the Hall sensor, optical sensor, coil negative terminal or points"

54) This is needlessly confusing, just install the two resistors and go to the next step.

Use megatherm to program the air and coolant temperature sensors if you're using the stock ones. From the 1985 FSM:

Air temp sensor resistance (kOhm) (ca20e only):
-10C -> 8.0-10.0
 20C -> 2.3-2.7
 50C -> 0.7-0.9

Coolant temp sensor (kOhm):
-10C -> 8.5-9.5
 20C -> 2.3-2.7
 50C -> 0.77-0.87
 80C -> 0.30-0.33

65) Did not complete yet, but here is how I will do it:

Since the ca20e has two coils, we need to install a second coil driver. See: "Two Coils Direct Drive Output for a V3.0 PCB" on the Megasquirt 'n' Spark Extra Manual. The only difference is that I wired the coil output to pin 31 (instead of pin 6 as in the manual) because my wiring harness already had an unused wire on pin 31 that I could use.

  Reference notes:
     Megasquirt Manual v3.0 pcb
     Megasquirt 'n' Spark Extra Manual
     240sx Distributor Wiring

69) I screwed this part up a little... the mica insulators are in a bag with a screw, lock washer and plastic washer. The mica insulator are clear rectangles with a hole cut in them.

69,70) Install both (in case of injector upgrades later, and I don't know if we have low or high impedance injectors anyways)

71) Do not install these. Even though it'd be nice to have the current protection, we need the heat sink space for a second coil driver.

Useful Specifications
Fuel Pressure Regulator: 30 psi at idle, 37 psi at full throttle
Fuel Pump: 43-64 psi, 95 liters/hour or 25.125 gallon/hour (good to at least 150hp or so)
Fuel injector impudence: 2-3 Ohm (low impedance)

Updates
May 24, 2007
I got the parts for the cold air intake (universal intercooler piping kit for my eventual ca18det). I ripped out the maf, the stock intake pipes, the stock fan and fan clutch.
I mocked up the cold air piping and marked where to attach vacuum lines.
I got this rad set of vacuum line taps: "Spectre 8711 Optional Air Intake Installation Hardware Kit" off of (Amazon).
It's a set of grommets and vacuum fittings to connect vacuum lines to intake pipes, you just drill a hole and pop a grommet in.

Oct 25, 2007
Here's a link to a baseline tune that should get the car started. It's tuned for 12.5:1 AFR at 3000 rpms, and 12.0:1 above that.
http://www.indolence.net/s12/resources/meg..._2007_07_14.msq

I've decided to take it to the next step and drop a t2 turbo on this bad boy, I'll make a writeup in another thread.
« Last Edit: 01:54:55 AM / 30-Oct-08 by Empedocles99 »

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1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)

Offline Empedocles99

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Megasquirting
« Reply #1 on: 04:47:14 AM / 29-Mar-07 »
Got the kit today... damn there are a lot of components to solder! I sort of wish I bought one pre-assembled, I realize now that it may have been worth the extra $100 or so for a pre-assembled kit.

I think one more evening and it'll all be put together. I soldered together the MegaStim and the power & serial communications circuits on the main board today.

Also while I was at the auto parts store, I saw a universal cold air intake made by APC. It looks like I could get it to work with Megasquirt so long as the pipe isn't ridiculously big. It had pre-welded vacuum fittings, and maybe a bung, I can't tell... but all I need is one or two vacuum fittings and a place to drop my temperature sensor.
1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)

Offline Smalltar_The_Impaler

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Megasquirting
« Reply #2 on: 05:18:26 AM / 29-Mar-07 »
Is assembling the megasquirt very hard? I can't say I'm amazing at soldering or anything, but I have modded my share of video game systems.

"She has sex with things that could populate a dungeon in one of the old D&D modules that was built around secret erotic frisson shared by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman"

Offline abunaiS12

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Megasquirting
« Reply #3 on: 09:29:58 AM / 29-Mar-07 »
i dont think id have the patience for that very intresting though and provides the driver almost complete control over his/her engine and thats cool
« Last Edit: 09:30:14 AM / 29-Mar-07 by abunaiS12 »

Offline Empedocles99

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Megasquirting
« Reply #4 on: 12:02:10 PM / 29-Mar-07 »
Quote from: Smalltar_The_Impaler
Is assembling the megasquirt very hard? I can't say I'm amazing at soldering or anything, but I have modded my share of video game systems.

I don't really have much experience with soldering at all, it's relatively easy, but I'm sure I'm not making the best solder joints.

I assembled the MegaStim first (since it's only used to test and power up the MegaSquirt, and hence less crucial), and basically learned to solder on that thing.

There are lots of good soldering/assembly tips on their forums, http://www.msefi.com

The difficult part is the patience. The kit is very well organized and laid out. It's basically like an electronics version of color by numbers. Each component comes in its own baggie with a label that matches a label printed on the PCB. And there are a lot of components, check this out:



Most of the components have 2 or 3 leads to solder. The DB9 connector has 9, the DB37 connector has 37, the U1 socket has 40, and the U6 has I think 10. It's a lot of pins!
« Last Edit: 12:07:59 PM / 29-Mar-07 by Empedocles99 »
1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)

Offline mcfizzle

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Megasquirting
« Reply #5 on: 12:25:55 PM / 29-Mar-07 »
Have fun, man. I might pick one of those up, even just to assemble. I've been soldering for a few years now, I've always worked on electric guitars and amplifiers.
2000 Mazda Protege: Sold
1986 Nissan 200SX: Sold
1997 Nissan Pathfinder: Sold
1986 Nissan 200SX: In the works
1989 Nissan 240SX: Dailying

Offline Smalltar_The_Impaler

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Megasquirting
« Reply #6 on: 05:21:44 PM / 29-Mar-07 »
Holy crap... that's a lot of solder points, but I guess if you have the extra time and soldering equipment, nothing beats the smell of the 100 bucks saved.

"She has sex with things that could populate a dungeon in one of the old D&D modules that was built around secret erotic frisson shared by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman"

Offline mcfizzle

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Megasquirting
« Reply #7 on: 05:23:03 PM / 29-Mar-07 »
Quote from: Smalltar_The_Impaler
Holy crap... that's a lot of solder points, but I guess if you have the extra time and soldering equipment, nothing beats the smell of the 100 bucks saved.
I love the smell of molten tin, anyways.  
2000 Mazda Protege: Sold
1986 Nissan 200SX: Sold
1997 Nissan Pathfinder: Sold
1986 Nissan 200SX: In the works
1989 Nissan 240SX: Dailying

Offline Empedocles99

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Megasquirting
« Reply #8 on: 08:40:13 PM / 30-Mar-07 »
Yeah... so, I am rethinking soldering my own. I'm 3/4 through, and all the tests have passed so far, but it is far more time consuming than I had anticipated... I think I've spent 8 hours on it already.

The kit is simple, but I still made some mistakes in assembly that I had to fix.

Do yourself a favor and buy a pre-assembled kit if you get this thing!
1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)

Offline Smalltar_The_Impaler

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Megasquirting
« Reply #9 on: 03:25:55 AM / 03-Apr-07 »
I'll take your word for it and spend the extra hundred bucks when it's swappage time. As much as I love wasting time soldering, that's time that can be spent wiring.

"She has sex with things that could populate a dungeon in one of the old D&D modules that was built around secret erotic frisson shared by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman"

Offline Empedocles99

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Megasquirting
« Reply #10 on: 03:55:29 AM / 03-Apr-07 »
Update:

I have the computer assembled for fuel-only right now, it bench tests with MegaTune and works with the Stimulator.

Because our cars have two sparks per cylinder, it'll be tricky getting the hardware to support the two coil outputs needed. I'm researching how to set the board up for that nonsense. I might have to get an MSD and just run one signal to that and have the MSD power the two coils, or figure out how to cram another coil transistor on to the board... (I don't think there's room for that)

Next step is to build the wiring harness and decide whether to use Megasquirt for ignition timing control.

I am waiting on a stupid clutch to come in the mail before I can even think of installing this stuff
1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)

Offline Empedocles99

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Megasquirting
« Reply #11 on: 07:32:46 PM / 06-Apr-07 »
Update:

I think I have all the wiring figured out. I labeled all my wires and am going to make a harness this weekend.

I'll post up a wiring diagram once I'm done (subject to modifications, as I haven't tried to start the car with it yet...)

1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)

Offline Empedocles99

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Megasquirting
« Reply #12 on: 06:50:36 PM / 07-Apr-07 »
Quote from: Empedocles99
Update:

I think I have all the wiring figured out. I labeled all my wires and am going to make a harness this weekend.

I'll post up a wiring diagram once I'm done (subject to modifications, as I haven't tried to start the car with it yet...)

Posted wiring diagram.
1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)

Offline Premo

Megasquirting
« Reply #13 on: 09:06:03 PM / 07-Apr-07 »
jesus, thats alot of shit to solder...for that many point, id recommend going adn spending a bill on a weller.
They speak of my drinking, but they never consider my thirst
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premo + hillkill + lots-o-beer =
youtube.com/watch?v=lEecn6pLWLM
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Offline Empedocles99

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Megasquirting
« Reply #14 on: 09:47:14 PM / 07-Apr-07 »
Quote from: Premo
jesus, thats alot of shit to solder...for that many point, id recommend going adn spending a bill on a weller.

Dude, it is already done... hopefully the next fool will take my advice and buy one already assembled, heh.
1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)

Offline Empedocles99

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« Reply #15 on: 01:25:24 AM / 10-Apr-07 »
Quote from: Empedocles99
Update: Fuel injection harness wired... megasquirt turns the fuel pump on, yay.

1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)

Offline Seraph1m

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« Reply #16 on: 03:46:19 AM / 11-Apr-07 »
awesomeness. i think I might just order me a MSnS to assemble, because i have a whole lot of spare time, and spare time filled with smoke, molten tin, and electrical stuff is time well spent. then, one day, i'll try running it on Corsa or some piece like that.

Offline Empedocles99

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« Reply #17 on: 03:59:13 AM / 11-Apr-07 »
Quote from: Seraph1m
awesomeness. i think I might just order me a MSnS to assemble, because i have a whole lot of spare time, and spare time filled with smoke, molten tin, and electrical stuff is time well spent. then, one day, i'll try running it on Corsa or some piece like that.

Hmm, I can't say that I enjoyed the soldering. Way too much work. Hopefully the end result will be worth it though (I only want 15 hp out of this project, is that too much to ask?)
1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)

Offline PowEr_oVeR

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Megasquirting
« Reply #18 on: 11:57:02 AM / 11-Apr-07 »
How much have u spent so far on the kit and components.  And would u recommend get for someone doing a swap without a harness?

Offline Empedocles99

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« Reply #19 on: 12:35:34 PM / 11-Apr-07 »
Quote from: PowEr_oVeR
How much have u spent so far on the kit and components.  And would u recommend get for someone doing a swap without a harness?

I think about $375 total so far.

I still need to drop about $75 in parts to make a real cold air intake (includes k&n cone filter) that bypasses the MAF.

You can do it without a nissan engine harness, but you'll have to do maybe 15 wires in to the engine bay.
1985 Nissan 200sx Notchback (ca20e)
2005 Honda s2000 Sebring Silver (my daily driver)
1970 Chevy Malibu Astro Blue (a work in progress)

http://www.indolence.net/s12/

Sparco Sprint Seats, RCI 6 Point Harness, Tokico Illumina Shocks, SSC Springs, Front & Rear Addco Anti-Sway Bars, Porterfield R4 Metalic Pads, Konig Rewinds & Kumho Ecsta V710 205/50/15, Prothane Bushings, K-Mac Rear Camber Adjuster, z31parts.com Spring Seats, Autopower Roll Bar, Megasquirt & LC-1 Wideband (12.0:1 AFR)