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Author Topic: Motor Problems  (Read 3434 times)

Offline 0.C.

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Motor Problems
« on: 01:44:38 PM / 10-Nov-07 »
Hey guys, so the problem started a month ago, the motor started to take longer to fire up, about 10 seconds.
So, I replaced the fuel filter (old filter was pretty clogged, I could barely blow through it), It fixed the problem for a day.It will also smoked black/white from the exhaust sometimes when the motor was idle.
I ignored it for a couple of weeks, until the other day, it sounded like crap, it would back fire and sounded like it was out of timing.
Checked the timing and it was ok, then I removed the sparkplugs #1 was ok, #2 was smoked #3 and 4 were ok. (btw they are iridium nkg)
So, I replaced #2 sparkplug and fired it up, it sounded the same. I removed  #2 sparkplug and it was completly black, no oil though.
I also ran the ECU diagnostic and got the knock sensor error code. I reach up the KS and the harness was unplugged,the locking clip felt off,I reconnected it and the error was gone, but the car would still sound like crap.
I checked the compression yesterday here's what I got
#1 cylinder 160psi
#2 160 psi but it took longer than the other cylinders to reach 160psi
#3 160psi
#4 160psi

So, I think the problem is the valves, might be bent or something.
Does anyone have any ideas of what it might be?

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Offline nismo200sx16

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« Reply #1 on: 05:00:20 PM / 10-Nov-07 »
I would start checking the simple stuff. check for a boost leak, make sure your maf is good, check o2 sensors. also whats all done to the motor, what boost are you running. and are you sure your haed gasket inst blown. if you are getting white smoke it probably is.

Offline SR20D21

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« Reply #2 on: 09:35:21 PM / 14-Nov-07 »
Quote from: nismo200sx16
I would start checking the simple stuff. check for a boost leak, make sure your maf is good, check o2 sensors. also whats all done to the motor, what boost are you running. and are you sure your haed gasket inst blown. if you are getting white smoke it probably is.

#1 do a tune up
#2 Black smoke usually to much fuel, If it is just one cylinder check your coil packs(swap them see if that plug then fouls) or injectors pull it out and check it under pressure .
If your O2 is bad the ecu goes to a very rich compesation mode check that(but that would read rich on all four). With the car running and up to OP temp unplug it, if it does not change then that could be it, if it gets worse the nO2 is fine.

#3 White smoke, usually coolant. your compression is fine but do a leak down test, or check for blown head gasket with compressed air with your valves closed piston at tdc comp stroke pull a coolant line coming off the head and see if there is air. If so you can be pulling coolant into the cylinder.

Without being there I would lean towards #1 coil pack(they do go bad often) #2 injector(these engines often sit for long periods I have seen a few go bad or come with bad injectors)#3 head gasket
« Last Edit: 09:36:31 PM / 14-Nov-07 by SR20D21 »
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Offline 0.C.

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« Reply #3 on: 11:16:54 PM / 14-Nov-07 »
Quote from: nismo200sx16
I would start checking the simple stuff. check for a boost leak, make sure your maf is good, check o2 sensors. also whats all done to the motor, what boost are you running. and are you sure your haed gasket inst blown. if you are getting white smoke it probably is.
No boost leaks.
When I notice it started to take longer to fire up, I though it could be the MAF, I will clean it up and check the wiring.
o2 sensor , I'll check on that.
The engine is a s13 blacktop, stock, 10psi.
I'm pretty sure it isn't a blown head gasket, or else it would smoke all the time, plus it's kind of light gray smoke.

Quote from: SR20D21
#1 do a tune up
#2 Black smoke usually to much fuel, If it is just one cylinder check your coil packs(swap them see if that plug then fouls) or injectors pull it out and check it under pressure .
If your O2 is bad the ecu goes to a very rich compesation mode check that(but that would read rich on all four). With the car running and up to OP temp unplug it, if it does not change then that could be it, if it gets worse the nO2 is fine.

#3 White smoke, usually coolant. your compression is fine but do a leak down test, or check for blown head gasket with compressed air with your valves closed piston at tdc comp stroke pull a coolant line coming off the head and see if there is air. If so you can be pulling coolant into the cylinder.

Without being there I would lean towards #1 coil pack(they do go bad often) #2 injector(these engines often sit for long periods I have seen a few go bad or come with bad injectors)#3 head gasket
Tune up was done a couple of weeks before I the motor sounded like crap.
I'll swap the coil packs this weekend, I only checked if there was power at the injector's harness and it was fine.
I'll check the o2 sensor that way.
I really doubt it's a blown head gasket, the car didn't over heat, neither there was a need of adding more coolant to the radiator.
My leak down test kit is coming this Friday, I'll test it.



Thanks guys for helping, I'll do what you suggested this weekend and let you know how it goes.

Offline Philipn126

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« Reply #4 on: 02:19:52 PM / 15-Nov-07 »
Check for codes on the ecu.  Sounds like it might be a bad injector oring to me.  When you shut the car down, it bleeds the excess fuel pressure into the chamber.
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Offline TalkingGoats

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« Reply #5 on: 02:36:51 PM / 15-Nov-07 »
It doesnt take much coolant/ water to make a cloud of white smoke. I am going to put money on a blown head gasket. Retorque your head to spec if you replace a bunch of shit and it keeps up. That is probably the cheapest solution. I have an MK3 Supra and on a cold start once in a blue moon it will push a cloud out of the exhaust. It doesnt drain to much coolant either. I found that out from looking really closely where the cyl head meets the block and I could see bubbles.

Check your injectors and the head gasket.
I'd rather be a matchstick than a lighter.

Offline nismo200sx16

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« Reply #6 on: 08:25:01 PM / 15-Nov-07 »
Quote from: Philipn126
Check for codes on the ecu.  Sounds like it might be a bad injector oring to me.  When you shut the car down, it bleeds the excess fuel pressure into the chamber.

I had a torn o-ring when I swaped injectors and it would take longer for it to fire up. it sounds like it could be that. it would explain the smoke and his start up issues. and it would run bad cause of the extra fuel in the cylinder. O.C. check your oil see if it smells like fuel. when I had the torn o-ring it contaminated the oil quickly.

Offline Philipn126

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« Reply #7 on: 06:35:26 AM / 16-Nov-07 »
^^ Mine did the same thing that yours did.  The local Nissan dealer can get new o rings fairly cheap.
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Offline SR20D21

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« Reply #8 on: 11:29:07 AM / 16-Nov-07 »
Quote from: Philipn126
^^ Mine did the same thing that yours did.  The local Nissan dealer can get new o rings fairly cheap.

I have never had the o-rings just go bad while running in the car (I'm about 15 to one on coils going bad to injectors or o-rings,unless they were changed) I did get one motor that was torn from jdm land.
When you change injectors make sure that you lube them (says motor oil but I use assy lube seems to work better)
With all injectors try to keep a close eye on the o-ring as it goes in, if it tries to slide over the lip it is prob swelled and should be changed.
As a rule of thumb just get new o-rings every time you change injectors. I went to a local bearing and seal company and purchased 12 higher quality ones for roughly the same price Nissan wanted for 4.
« Last Edit: 11:31:48 AM / 16-Nov-07 by SR20D21 »
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Offline Philipn126

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« Reply #9 on: 02:53:55 PM / 16-Nov-07 »
Yea, it is unlikely but it has happened.  Simple test:  pull the rail and turn the key till the pump primes.  If you see dripage, its the oring/injector.
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Offline gerrybg

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« Reply #10 on: 07:03:21 PM / 17-Nov-07 »
I'm with SR20D21 on this. With the numbers you got on compression test, I'd lean towards an electrical problem especially with the hard to fire on start poblem.

1. injector problem - given the fouling on selected cylinder(s) only, (pull the injector and get it tested and cleaned and replace the o-ring. This sounds most likely, obviouly concentrating around the cylinder where the fouling is happening.

2. Coilpack

Then: 3. Loose earth,  

4. AFM loose wiring/dirt(unlikely given its one cylinder) .

All except loose earth checked by swapping out with known perfect components from a friend, where there is only one of them.

You now have all clear code on the ECU?

Have seen f'd/faulty ECU's on SR's before but this would be after everything else is cleared and again unlikely given it is only one cylinder where the problem is.
« Last Edit: 07:07:18 PM / 17-Nov-07 by gerrybg »

Offline Ozchuck

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« Reply #11 on: 12:00:24 AM / 19-Nov-07 »
+1 what gerry said.

Also check your fuel pressure, a shitty pump could be related to the issue of fixing after the filter changed, and explain the sounds and missing.

Offline 0.C.

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« Reply #12 on: 01:22:38 AM / 19-Nov-07 »
Been busy this weekend and haven't had any time to work on the car.
I checked the fuel pressure after I replaced the fuel filter, can't remember how many bars/psi I had but it was more than average.
The ECU only reads code 55 which I believe it means everything is ok.
Do I really have to use OEM o-rings? I have a box full of non-OEM o-rings, wonder if i could use those.
How do you test the injectors? sorry if I sound like a noob.

Thanks again for your help, I'll hopefully have some time to work on it this week.

Offline Philipn126

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« Reply #13 on: 07:42:39 PM / 19-Nov-07 »
Make sure that the orings you use are fuel rated.  Otherwise, you could have a nasty fire.

To test the injectors, start the car and put the tip of a screwdriver to the injector cap, then the other end of the screwdriver to your ear and listed for a ticky tick tick when the injector pulses.  I doubt its an injector because it would more than likely throw a code.  Since you are getting 55, I doubt its that now.
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Offline gerrybg

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« Reply #14 on: 03:46:42 PM / 20-Nov-07 »
You don't always get codes if the electrical side of it is functioning properly.The codes only work on malfunctioning voltage.

So if the injector is working for voltage, but your o-rings are leaking or the injector is clogged/dirty. There may be no codes but the fuel mixture could be wrong for that cylinder.

You haven't swapped the injectors around yet, to see if the problem moves to another cylinder depending on the position of that particular injector?

If you could get hold of a spare injector or 2 that would help, (just to let you know the sr injectors on s13 red or black top SR engines are the same as Z32 VG30dett ones, these might be more plentiful in the US. Also don't know about there, but here in Aust. an sr standard injector can be had used pretty cheap as lots of peole have swapped to bigger ones, so have them lying around)

If you do and the problem follows that injector then you've isolated it. (I know its a pain in the arse moving injectors around.)

By testing I didn't just mean voltage. I meant take it to an injector service. Get it flow tested by them and cleaned properly, get them to fit the o-rings while your at it.

With the cost of fuel these days, this cost would pay for itself pretty quickly.

Also when my main earth was loose and the car was blowing black smaoke due to bad fuel mixtures. I found that the plugs would blacken up almost immediately after I cleaned them,(like just driving down the road).
So once you get the problem you'll have to take that plug out and clean it up with carb cleaner and a tooth brush. Don't get a new one as the iridium plugs last for ages and it should be fine after a clean up.

Once I found the loose earth and fixed it in my car, it still ran roughly as the plugs had blackened up. After I cleaned them it ran fine.
« Last Edit: 03:40:42 PM / 20-Nov-07 by gerrybg »

Offline SR20D21

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« Reply #15 on: 07:03:30 PM / 20-Nov-07 »
Quote from: 0.C.
Been busy this weekend and haven't had any time to work on the car.
I checked the fuel pressure after I replaced the fuel filter, can't remember how many bars/psi I had but it was more than average.
The ECU only reads code 55 which I believe it means everything is ok.
Do I really have to use OEM o-rings? I have a box full of non-OEM o-rings, wonder if i could use those.
How do you test the injectors? sorry if I sound like a noob.

Thanks again for your help, I'll hopefully have some time to work on it this week.

To test a leaking inner o-ring, simply unbolt the fuel rail, lift it so you can see the injector tip(the one in question) have a buddy get in the car and cycle the pump on and off. If you get fuel around the tip, thats it. If its coming  from the injector itself o-rings are good but injector is bad. If no then you need to move to next possible problem.

If you are unsure if they are not rated for fuel just buy new ones! Burning your car to the ground will cost more in the long run
Sa da tay!
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Offline DrifterXs12

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« Reply #16 on: 01:10:13 AM / 30-Nov-07 »
K well im not sure how hard it is to pull the rail but an easy way to check for a leaking injector is to watch fuel pressure with the car off and the pump primed. If it drops THEN you should pull the rail and find out which one is leaking. Also pinch off the return line to eliminate a leaking FPR.

Evan-

Offline PurpleStuff

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« Reply #17 on: 02:36:02 PM / 02-Feb-08 »
Everyone seems to have great ideas about fuel system issues, which would explain the crapped up plug in cyl. 2, however low compression, (O.C. said was Present) also causes misfires, poor ignition quality due to low desity from low compression.  If you have low compression in that cylender DO A LEAKDOWN TEST TO FIND OUT WHERE ITS GOING once you know where its going, you know whats wrong.  Fix it and be done.  its not worth messing around with fuel system and exsessive tuneup prosedures if the first post said PLUG IN CYL. 2 FOULED, CYL. 2 COMPRESSION NOT LIKE THE OTHERES we have played that game since we where kids, you already found which thing was not like the others, I would continue diagnosis based on that observation.
3 motors later i'm finally starting to think about settling down.

Offline 0.C.

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« Reply #18 on: 10:47:32 PM / 14-Feb-08 »
I forgot that I had a thread going on here.
Well, this is what happened, we got bored and decided to pull out the motor, do a head job with aftermarket parts and build the bottom.
It's been a few months already and the motor is just sitting there, headless.
Hopefully by Spring break, the owner of the car gets more cash and I find some spare time to work on it.
I never got to trouble shoot the problem.
From what I saw when I removed the head, the pistons are good, the valves aren't bent. So I would believe it had to do with the fueling system and/or a coilpack/ignition.

Thanks all for your help.