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Author Topic: My Project S12  (Read 6691 times)

Offline Altyman

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My Project S12
« on: 03:25:31 PM / 27-Dec-07 »
Hi!

Like some of you, I'm one of those Mk1.5 owners trying to fit a KA in the S12... The previous owner did the mechanical stuff, but gave up on the wiring and I thought it would be easy as 1,2,3 to sort it out. I was wrong.

So after several tries, several tests, several nights spent wondering why the 1986 200sx wiring diagram didn't show anything like what was going on in my 1986 200sx I thought I would finally make things the right way and unravel the mistery. Plus the car needed some body work... So I started stripping the car, and I thought I'd share this with you and ask a few questions while I'm at it.

So here is the subject:
 ) but I figure it must ride quiet!

The carpet is impressing too... weighs about 25 pounds, almost an inch thick. Far from a Civic!


Now with the questions!
1:Chances are that once in the history there was some kind of finisher over this thing:


2:I need to remove the dash... Chilton says there is a bolt hid somwhere around ths place:


Which is a close up of:

Which is the right side of the dash... I noticed there was some kind of plate that should be hiding the bolt. The thing is I really can't figure out how to take it off. It might soud stupid, but there is no way I can stick a screw driver around it to pry it off... there must be some kind of trick or something?

Well that's it for now. Thanks!



EDIT: Images uploaded thanks JonB!
« Last Edit: 11:38:53 PM / 27-Dec-07 by Altyman »

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Online JonB

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« Reply #1 on: 07:50:44 PM / 27-Dec-07 »
There should be a plastic part in the very corner of that light strip. The black thing that has the gas light & rear defog light, The one that seperates the dash from metal trim up against the windsheild,the far right corner of that should pop out.
 I like notches. Mine was just like that only made a little earlier.MKI '86 though.
 There's a downloadable FSM on this site somewhere.
 That things buried! We sometimes get that much snow, JAN or FEB and it's odd, you got many many inches. There's a plastic handle with a picture of a gas symble and a trunk that goes on there. I'll bet you could take one off a same era sentra or pulsar. Sorry I don't have one around.
If you click on the last link box at photobucket (IMG) it'll say copied. Open a screen here and one there, when your writing your reply or topic copy that link and move it to the topic and the picture will show up in your text. It took me a while to figure out what people where trying to say in doing that.
« Last Edit: 07:55:00 PM / 27-Dec-07 by JonB »

Offline Altyman

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« Reply #2 on: 11:34:16 PM / 27-Dec-07 »
Quote from: JonB
There should be a plastic part in the very corner of that light strip. The black thing that has the gas light & rear defog light, The one that seperates the dash from metal trim up against the windsheild,the far right corner of that should pop out.
 I like notches. Mine was just like that only made a little earlier.MKI '86 though.
 There's a downloadable FSM on this site somewhere.
 That things buried! We sometimes get that much snow, JAN or FEB and it's odd, you got many many inches. There's a plastic handle with a picture of a gas symble and a trunk that goes on there. I'll bet you could take one off a same era sentra or pulsar. Sorry I don't have one around.
If you click on the last link box at photobucket (IMG) it'll say copied. Open a screen here and one there, when your writing your reply or topic copy that link and move it to the topic and the picture will show up in your text. It took me a while to figure out what people where trying to say in doing that.
Thanks a lot JonB! Very nice from you! I actually saw this plastic plate you're talking about but could never take it off...

Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #3 on: 06:42:15 PM / 30-Dec-07 »
A knife should get behind it and pry it outward.  It may scratch it a bit, but its an S12 not a show car lol.  There might be some slight indentation where a prying tool is supposed to fit but it may be completely flush, I don't remember exactly.  It shouldn't take much for it to come off.

Where do you live btw?  Thats alot of snow!!  
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Offline Altyman

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« Reply #4 on: 03:02:43 PM / 01-Jan-08 »
Quote from: 200sxkitcar
A knife should get behind it and pry it outward.  It may scratch it a bit, but its an S12 not a show car lol.  There might be some slight indentation where a prying tool is supposed to fit but it may be completely flush, I don't remember exactly.  It shouldn't take much for it to come off.

Where do you live btw?  Thats alot of snow!!  
I'm done with the dashboard! I had to scratch it a little, but I guess it's like you say... it's not a show car!

I didn't have time to take pictures yet, but it's not quite like I imagined it behind the dashboard. I thought I could take the interior wiring harness out of he car, but it seems it goes into the engine bay and in the rear of the car, meaning there is only one harness, not one for the rear, one for the engine bay and one for the front that plug together...

I'll have to take it out anyway if I want to keep my motivation! I hate to work in the cold.

I live in Quebec city, in Canada... it's about 2h30 from the borders (Maine).

Thanks for helping.


Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #5 on: 08:18:20 PM / 01-Jan-08 »
Yea its got to be colder than hell there.  Crazy amounts of snow.

There are three wiring harness portions in the car.  One is the main ECCS harness.  The other is a dash-specific harness that connects at the Super Multiple Junction (the large block connector that bolts together).  The rest is one harness that runs the distance in the car, from the far left headlight around down the passengers side to the front relay cluster behind the right headlight and then over to the left headlight relay cluster.  Taking the whole thing out requires major disassmbly of the car, I've done it four or five times   become quite proficient at it.  Takes me probably 3-4 hours, but figure double that when you're learning the ins and outs lol, and probably double that w/snow and cold survival!
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Offline Altyman

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« Reply #6 on: 11:50:34 AM / 02-Jan-08 »
Quote from: 200sxkitcar
Yea its got to be colder than hell there.  Crazy amounts of snow.

There are three wiring harness portions in the car.  One is the main ECCS harness.  The other is a dash-specific harness that connects at the Super Multiple Junction (the large block connector that bolts together).  The rest is one harness that runs the distance in the car, from the far left headlight around down the passengers side to the front relay cluster behind the right headlight and then over to the left headlight relay cluster.  Taking the whole thing out requires major disassmbly of the car, I've done it four or five times   become quite proficient at it.  Takes me probably 3-4 hours, but figure double that when you're learning the ins and outs lol, and probably double that w/snow and cold survival!
loll I guess I don't really have the choice if I want to unravel the mystery... I'll take pictures of what I need to do as soon as I have time!

Thanks again.

Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #7 on: 07:19:11 PM / 02-Jan-08 »
 

One of the local members and I will be getting together and completing his KA swap with the MK1.5 BS.  He has an updated mid-year changeover FSM that shows what you will need info wise, I would like to get some of it scanned up at least relatively soon, and the work will actually be done when it gets warmer.  All of it will be documented, so it should work in tandem w/your project.  Any other questions as you go along just ask them up, because if you have it I'm sure we will!  Best to figure it out now lol  
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Offline Altyman

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« Reply #8 on: 08:52:04 PM / 02-Jan-08 »
Quote from: 200sxkitcar


One of the local members and I will be getting together and completing his KA swap with the MK1.5 BS.  He has an updated mid-year changeover FSM that shows what you will need info wise, I would like to get some of it scanned up at least relatively soon, and the work will actually be done when it gets warmer.  All of it will be documented, so it should work in tandem w/your project.  Any other questions as you go along just ask them up, because if you have it I'm sure we will!  Best to figure it out now lol  
Nice! Good to know I'm not alone

Basically, two things seem to be different from the other S12s... the starter signal and the fuel pump signal.

I've hooked my starter to the B/Y wire shown on the diagras and it would start on 'on' and 'start'. I'll have to look for the real starter wire. On the switch, the wire that seems to be the start wire really is B/Y, I'll just follow it through the harness and plug my starter right on it. I'll do the exact same thing for the fuel pump, the thing is I don't feel like doing this outside.

Generally, the weather is not so bad in the beginning of january, but as it goes it gets colder and we've sometime seen as low as -40 (celsius and fahreinheit, it's the "crossover point", where farheneit = celsius)in the beginning of february. It's about -10F right now. This really does suck! Makes working barehands impossible and god knows working with gloves is a pain in the ass...

I think the coil needs the power transistor to work. I wanted to do a nice and clean job, with the stock connectors out of a 240sx instead of splicing and stuff... I might give up and just cut and splice. The mkII diagrams were ok for the coil. I'll make my way to the engine bay and try to take pictures of the B/Y wire thing. I guess I'll need to get to the engine bay to take the harness out anyway.

Anyway, keep me updated if you find anything interesting! And thanks again for your help!

Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #9 on: 09:33:53 PM / 02-Jan-08 »
Those two things you listed do seem to come up before.  I would bet largely that the coil does indeed need a transistor/ignitor to fire, prob. sourced from the KA car.

Pics are good.  -40??  my balls ice over just thinking about it! Damn!
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Offline Altyman

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« Reply #10 on: 01:28:23 PM / 03-Jan-08 »
Cleaning interior parts is also part of the job. Almost 22 years (21 and 11 months) of dust and soil have accumulated on some parts of the car!

My two best friends for cleaning:


They do an amazing job!

Offline Altyman

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« Reply #11 on: 03:30:35 PM / 03-Jan-08 »
Ok, pics now!

First, the starter wire.

As you see on this one, the starter wire really is B/Y, slightly bigger than the other "ordinary" wires. Probably 12-14awg instead of 18-20...


Then it seem that ths wire (the B/Y on top of the others) is the same. I tried, but the car would start on 'on'. I just hope it's not a switch problem... I'll be investigating on this one once the harness is in my house. By the way, this pictures has been taken in the engine bay, on the right side of the car, where the interior harness connects to the lower engine harness.

Second, the coil wire:

A picture of the power transistor that must be taken on the 240sx, or whicher ever car that had a  KA. It's on the right side of the engine bay (left side of the car), bolted on the front of the shock tower. It's either over 100$ brand new or it can easily be hid in a pocket on your next visit at the scrap yard. I think the choice is quite easy to make...

The coil plug is the grey plug downstream of the power transistor. Not the small one wire black one (obviously) but the bigger grey one shown on the picture.

Third, pump wires I have no picture taken yet... I'll just follow the 12v positive wire of the pump (I know which it is) to the relay and I'll know which is the signal wire coming from the ECU.

Now, the none swap related issues... in his eternal search for the "white underdash 10 pins plug" everyone is talk about in their MK2 topics, the previous owner cut the wires from this plug thinking they were related to the fuel pump.

They were cut on the "device end" (meaning the opposite of the harness end). The sunroof and the power windows have stopped to work ever since. I recall noticing these two devices were sharing a wire when looking at the diagrams. The thing is I couldn't find the other end of these... Anyone knows what is the use of this plug? IT has light blue, purple, yellow/red and brown wires. If anyone has the time to take a look at where those wires lead it would be very nice from you!

Second, the turn signal wouldn't work with the handle, but they work with the hazard light button. Then I noticed this:

A red wire has been connected on the turn signal wire (this is a shot from the wire side of the interior fuse box) and on a mysterious Yellow/purpe wire going into the time control unit I think... or it might be in the super multiple junction, I'll check.
This probably is the source of the problem!
There is also a grey wire that has been added, connecting the "on" position wire (on the ignition switch) to another wire in the rear of the car. I'm guessing it used to be equipped with some kind of alarm or something... I'll take pictures of that, probably tomorrow.

So this is pretty much the wire issues I have to get rid of!

And to end it up, pictures of the mess that led me to think I should strip the whole thing and do a nice job instead of the ghetto wiring...


Custom relays, for a test purpose...

I know what you meant now, when you (200sxkitcar) said it was quite a big job to remove the whole harness. I started with the rear of the car and it seems I'll have to take the rear bumper off. The back up lights plug won't pass in the small whole (which was probably meant for it).


Pulling on it like craxy (because I'm dumb and I really wanted it to come out) results in broker wires...
« Last Edit: 03:57:01 PM / 03-Jan-08 by Altyman »

Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #12 on: 07:12:17 PM / 03-Jan-08 »
I've passed the lights through that hole before, so I'm not sure.  It did take some working, but the plugs did fit one by one.  I don't recall removing much of the exterior trim, most of everything came out from the inside of the trunk.
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Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #13 on: 07:46:52 PM / 03-Jan-08 »
Quote from: Altyman
Ok, pics now!

First, the starter wire.
 lol!

« Last Edit: 07:51:02 PM / 03-Jan-08 by 200sxkitcar »
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Offline tommy

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« Reply #14 on: 12:06:20 AM / 06-Jan-08 »
Nice job man keep it up...

I remember working on the darn mk1.5 lol don't wanna go there anymore even mor when someone else has been messing with everything and didn't know squat about car electronics...

 and by the way...

Joyeux 400e anniversaire!!! hehe c'est rare on qu'on pogne des gars du Quebec sur ce forum la....

Cheers

Tom

Corolla TE31 1977 (traded)
Corolla KE20 1974 (Project)

Offline Altyman

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« Reply #15 on: 01:57:37 PM / 06-Jan-08 »
Quote from: tommy
Nice job man keep it up...

I remember working on the darn mk1.5 lol don't wanna go there anymore even mor when someone else has been messing with everything and didn't know squat about car electronics...

 and by the way...

Joyeux 400e anniversaire!!! hehe c'est rare on qu'on pogne des gars du Quebec sur ce forum la....

Cheers

Tom
Héhé! Joyeux 400e toi aussi! Viens faire un tour sur www.japoldschool.bravehost.com .

Quote from: 200sxkitcar
The ignition should be labeled by those wires as to what does what, if I remember correctly.
Thats the large wire that clips on to the starter, correct?  That goes to a relay which the wire that the ignition should also be connected to.  IE the ignition and the starter are not connected directly.
Now that might be the reason why it couldnt work... I think I know where my stock ignition relay is, I'll check if I can find a new wire to hook my starte to!

Quote from: 200sxkitcar
The one-wire black one you are referring to is the small thing with the rubber cover, correct?  That should be a diode if I'm not mistaken.
And what is the use of this diode?

Quote from: 200sxkitcar
Aaaa'ight.  Those should be the plugs that come out of the ECU harness, near the ECU itself, one of which has the stuff for the fuel pump, the other of which if I remember correctly has provisions for the automatic trans stuff (like signal wires to the torque converter lockup control box, etc).  I can take some pics of my stock CA20 harness, I doubt the KA is much different in that regard.
Ugh, that is a mess.  That is why I want a better set of guides in the KA section for swaps, so people don't terminate their harnesses.  Because it just makes it more difficult when others pick it up to finish the job  lol!

Are you sure it is engine related? I really thought it was the caus of my windows/sunroof failure. Maybe the motors are seized.... It makes some sens!

We're having a few warm days, I'll have some time to work on the S12 this week!

Offline Altyman

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« Reply #16 on: 01:24:46 PM / 07-Jan-08 »
Ok, a few moe questions...

First, how do you remove the rear bumper? There are three nuts on each side, inside the trunk, 5 or 6 bolts under the car, what else? It won't come out!

Second, the fuel pump harness connects to the main harness with two connectors, and the wires change colors there. I'd need to know which color on the pump side becomes what color on the harness side, if anyone has time to check it out...

I'm almost done removing the whole harness, it should be out of the car by tomorrow.

Offline Altyman

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« Reply #17 on: 12:07:42 AM / 13-Jan-08 »
 ... anyone?

Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #18 on: 03:02:01 PM / 19-Jan-08 »
I'll let you know later today.
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Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #19 on: 08:35:42 PM / 07-Feb-08 »
OK, maybe a little bit later.  There were some issues with my harness, as you can see.  If you need pics of the other end, as you can see I have several of the entire harnesses as well

« Last Edit: 08:36:44 PM / 07-Feb-08 by 200sxkitcar »
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