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Author Topic: Engine Swap  (Read 2815 times)

Offline 300ZX210

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Engine Swap
« on: 12:05:38 PM / 03-Apr-08 »
I found out that the crankshaft messed up on my car.
I found some engines for sell on the internet and i had a question.
I have a 1985 NA and i was wondering if i would have to do any custom fabrication to the engine bay to be able put in a 1985 Z31 Turbo engine in?
« Last Edit: 10:23:15 AM / 15-May-08 by Arro »

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Offline TalkingGoats

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Engine Swap
« Reply #1 on: 12:16:45 PM / 03-Apr-08 »
Holy eye strain....


Z31 Turbo doesnt fit without cutting an S12...

But if your car is a 300zx drop it in. You need the wiring and ecu as well.
I'd rather be a matchstick than a lighter.

Offline 300ZX210

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« Reply #2 on: 12:21:46 PM / 03-Apr-08 »
Yeah. I have a 300zx.

Offline TalkingGoats

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« Reply #3 on: 12:33:47 PM / 03-Apr-08 »
I'd rather be a matchstick than a lighter.

Offline 300ZX210

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« Reply #4 on: 12:39:14 PM / 03-Apr-08 »
Thanks Man! Much Appreciated!

Offline David B

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Engine Swap
« Reply #5 on: 10:18:25 PM / 14-May-08 »
what about the VG30DE?

would that fit alright? or not


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Offline sideways_s12

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Engine Swap
« Reply #6 on: 05:13:45 AM / 15-May-08 »
that's alot of work as well but can and has been done

Offline Arro

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Engine Swap
« Reply #7 on: 10:30:41 AM / 15-May-08 »
"Notice: This domain name expired on 05/06/08 and is pending renewal or deletion"

redz31's site. Oh well.

But don't let these comments fool you, this is NOT a simple swap, it's mostly custom. JasterM5 did this Z31 turbo engine swap into an S12... custom motor mounts, which themselves took a lot of work... custom driveshaft... custom this, custom that... someone asked this question a few months ago, and Jaster came out of his forum sleep and said he would not recommend this swap. Period. This from the guy who did it.

If you want a turbo VG, the best way to go about it is to turbocharge a VG30E. There is less work involved in customizing the manifolds for turbo(s) then there is swapping in an VG30ET.

So the answer is YES, you have to do a LOT of fabrication, and some of it in odd ways (specifically the motor mount on the turbo side) to even begin to think about putting in an VG30ET. You would be better served boosting the stock engine.

VG30DE fits, and actually so does the VG30DETT (there have been proof pictures of a completed VG30DETT swap). But the VG20DETT is EXPENSIVE, and a supertight fit, and weighs a lot (think noseheavy car). The VG30DE is an ok idea, but you could do more with a VG30E to turbo conversion. Since you have to rebuild yours, why not shove a turbo crank, rods, and pistons in it? That would basically give you a turbo bottom end inside, but it would still mount like stock in the bay. You can't just bolt on the turbo stuff tho, the turbocharger sits exactly where the non-turbo motor mount does. So some custom turbo manifolds and two small, cheap T25's or Mitsu 14B's are PLENTY of airflow for a twin setup. Plus the rebuild would let you run better head gaskets and ARP head studs. Then you're set for some massive boost from your newly-assembled VG30ETT

THAT would be what I would do.
« Last Edit: 10:32:36 AM / 15-May-08 by Arro »
-Jason Arro


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Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
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Offline redrocket

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« Reply #8 on: 10:55:21 AM / 15-May-08 »
I agree with ARRO for the most part but I dont recommend using a turbo bottom end stay with stock NA bottom end depending on years you build for you get super low compression ratios the turbo guys do a lot of rebuilds to their cars with the N/A bottom end it has 9:1 compression and can handle over 400Hp with just sock internals. check out www.vg30et.com that should give you some good ideas.
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Offline Arro

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« Reply #9 on: 10:58:29 AM / 15-May-08 »
Yeah he's right... 9 to 1 is perfect actually. I'd still stress getting better head gaskets and using ARP head studs to hold them onto the block, but otherwise the VG30E bottom end is probably good as is.

But since you need to rebuild yours, you might as well go even beefier inside. But even a quick and dirty rebuild with a new crank and reusing your rods would work. I wouldn't reuse the pistons tho. In fact, I'd go with .030 overbore pistons and have the block bored to .030 as well. If you do that, you have to get the pistons first! The machine shop will need them to fit each one to it's respective cyllinder when boring it over.
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formerly,
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Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline demonic s12

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« Reply #10 on: 02:37:58 AM / 24-May-08 »



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Offline Walteezy

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Engine Swap
« Reply #11 on: 07:01:22 AM / 25-May-08 »
crossmember might be a bitch & also the driveshaft. thats about it.
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Offline Richter888

Engine Swap
« Reply #12 on: 10:37:33 PM / 28-May-08 »
Just wanted to give a long ass comment so bare with me on my long and regretful journey for the 'VG30et"  swap.  Also i will base this off of what i had to do with my SE, so you four bangers might have a worse experience)  I would like to say dont just jump headfirst into a project like this, with no tools, being fresh to doing any kind of motor swapping(or working on one lol), and have extreme patience!  I had a friend who is an excellent mechanic and I advise finding someone who is to help you!  I use to be an idiot when it came to cars now that I look back,  almost everything I've learned about cars(wiring most of all) has come from the swap.(I recently completed a 2.3 turbo ford motor swap into my 89' mustang dont ever wire your wastegate shut lol!)  So think about what your doing and i hope this little bit helps.  My s12 DOES run and DRIVES but I still got a couple more issues to work out.
      First ill start with the obvious things that you would need.  A large set of ratchets(so you can break a couple when you take out your engine crossmember), wrenches, sockets, alan bits, steering wheel puller, slide hammer, welder,  solder and soldergun, flux, automotive grade wiring,  good wiring diagrams of both engine harnesses and body harnesses, breaker bar, and a really BIG hammer.  I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH TO GET GOOD WIRING DIAGRAMS!!!!! DONT SCREW AROUND WITH CHILTON OR HAYNES YOU WILL HATE YOURSELF!!  Go to eautorepair.net for the best diagrams.  Trust me they help!
You will need for the swap:
1.  VG30et motor
2.  VG30et wiring harness and computer
3.  s12 oil pan and pickup from the vg30e in the s12(forgot to mention that you need an SE)
4.  s12 engine mount bracket on passenger side
5.  Turbo powersteering rack from Z31
6.  Both steering shafts from both cars
7.  turbo 5-speed borg&Warner goodness!( I also want to put rest the myth of the s12 transmission being stronger than the turbo B&W tranny.  Just think about this now.  Which motor makes more torque?  Which transmission is physically larger and higher quality?  The fact of the matter is that Borg and warner made excellent transmissions and to think that the s12's is strong is UTTERLY STUPID!!!!  Use the s12 tranny at your own risk!!  There have been cases where the transmission is some cars do explode and shrapnel does fly though transmission tunnels.  Dont think it only happens to very high powered(dragster, racers, etc) vehicles.  Lets just say that side stepping the clutch is not good on a weak tranny.  Trust me, I got lucky.)  
     
Ok first you will have to take out your old vg30 motor.  First thing to do after you remove it is to take the ENTIRE harness off of the engine and get out the wiring diagrams and map out the entire harness.  What i mean is get duct tape and a marker.  Trace it out with the wiring on the motor if it will make it easier for you!  After doing this, you will need to do the same for your turbo harness.  The reason behind this is that you are going to have to use the body plugs where the engine harness plugs into the body off of the s12 harness for all the powers and instrument cluster feedback.  This will help you integrate your turbo harness into the s12.  **SPECIAL NOTE** The turbo harness out of a 300zx was fed through the passenger side of the car, ours as you may or may not know is fed through the driver side.  This means that the entire turbo harness has to be extended(yes all 52 wires) long enough to fit into the computer in its factory placement!  I may have forgot something and if I have ill edit this post.
     
Next will be the motor on the mechanical side.  Buy an entire engine gasket set and go to town!  I highly suggest buying ARP head fasteners for your heads and flywheel so they can be used over and over again!  My turbo motor has over 200,000 miles on it now and runs great!  You first will have to swap oil pans and pickups.  OK.  HERE THE WORST PART!  The turbo needs a oil drainback tube into the oil pan.  You will see this when you look at the tbo motor. THIS IS CRUCIAL!  You will need to drill a hole in this part!  Don't get too close to the bends in the oil pan or it WILL CRACK!!!  After drilling a small hole I used a dremel and patience to make it bigger using a template.  YOU WILL HATE YOUSELF FOREVER IF YOU SCREW THIS UP!!!  Think about how hard it would be to find an se oil pan?
     
Then is the engine bay.  This is where the BIG hammer comes into play.  The turbo motor uses a crossover pipe to connect the two exhaust manifolds.  This will contact the firewall.  So there are two things you have to do.  Grind the flanges on the crossover pipe.  This will give you an extra half-inch.  Then come the fund part!  You need to beat your firewall in about 3/4".  Next will be rerouting your brake lines.  The crossover pipe runs very close to them.  Unless you want no brakes at 100mph then they will need to be moved up as far as you can.  Buy good header wrap too!  Now is some more fun stuff.  You will need to cut the driverside engine mount on the crossmember completely off!! as the turbo will sit right in its spot!  Now, you will need to make an engine mount.  I used 1/4" thick plate steel.  I welded it to the frame.  Use your head when making this.  Base the design of the the engine mounts that are now on you turbo motor.  Make a template that you can use.(so you dont have to constantly pull the motor in and out of the engine bay.)  Here is the biggest most regretfull issue I am now having with the car.  Rember on my list i said to get the power steering rack from a z31?  If you compare the 200's and the 300's you'll the that the 300's rack "lays down".  This is for the turbo downpipe to clear.  Well, needless to say this is where i was stumped.  It seems that the steering geometry on the cars are obviosly different.  I had to lay the rack almost completely down.  I had a freind make a custom steering shaft.  I have to use The s12's and the 300's shafts because the splines on both of them are different, so its a 50-50 mix.  Basically my laying this down caused undue presser on the rack.  All the seals on the rack are totally destroyed or ruptured.  I plan on having manifolds made in the next couple of weeks to solve this.
     
Next is the tranny.  I used the B&W from the 300.  THIS TRANSMISSION IS PHYSICALLY LARGER!  I ended up cutting the top of the tranny tunnel welded and bolted a plate down.  No it does not contact the dash or alter it in any way.  I sealed it with black uerethane.  A custom transmission mount will have to be made.  Best thing I can say is to make a template and take it to a fab shop to be made.  Mine worked great!  Dont forget to get the driveshaft from a 300zx!  As the tranny yoke is different from the s12 five speed!  I got my driveshaft cut and lengthened for $200.  I went with a single pieced design.  Aluminum is out of the question since its diameter is too large for a one piece design and would require more tranny tunnel alteration!
     
I think I covered everything!  Most of whats left is trivial work and doesn't need to be mentioned.  If you want to do all this work then I say go for it! it fund and you learn a lot.  I only have about $2000 in the entire car! Most of it is in parts to upgrade the motor and suspension.  I highly suggest a better route though.  Now that I look back, I wish I just would have forked up the money to have custom exhaust manifolds made!  I never would've had to make even half of the alterations to the car.  Now I plan on going with a twin turbo setup so then it will solve my knuckle issue.  We will see how this goes.  Hope this helps you decide on your swap lol.(I know it will)
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