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Author Topic: SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's  (Read 3325 times)

Offline ATMA

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« on: 03:30:38 AM / 03-Jul-08 »
ok i am putting together of list of stuff im going to be needing to buy here in the next couple months and i was wondering

what are the pros and cons of a custom stand alone unit vs piggy back units that connect to the stock ECU. or is the only real big difference the price tag?

i was looking at either the Apexi Power FC or the greddy emanage ultimate
« Last Edit: 03:46:35 AM / 03-Jul-08 by ATMA »

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Offline mod_mastaz

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #1 on: 05:08:00 AM / 03-Jul-08 »
What motor is this going to be for? A standalone is nice because you can adjust a lot of parameters. The only downfall is creating a very nice and smooth base map. As for a piggyback, you can use your stock map then adjust from there. I wouldn't recommend the e-manage or safc or any of that junk. If its for a ca18det/sr20det/ka24de, I'd go for bikirom or nistune. They look very promising and for sure I will be going this route. A factory map as a base map will keep things very simple and save lots of time trying to create it on another ecu. The AEM EMS is also a very nice standalone because it uses the stock map as a base map, also it's plug and play utilizing stock sensors. Good luck whichever route you choose.
« Last Edit: 05:12:44 AM / 03-Jul-08 by mod_mastaz »

Offline ATMA

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #2 on: 05:53:09 AM / 03-Jul-08 »
im working on an SR20DET engine i was heavily thinking the Apexi Power FC beacuse they come already w/ a preset map and it can be quickly changed and updated

honestly it sounds almsot to good to bed true

Quote
Apexi's Power FC is the industry's solution for tuners who require an entry level ECU standalone at an affordable price.  The Power FC is a full standalone computer with complete engine management and control capable of handling virtually any type of engine setup.

 

The Power FC unit is designed to be plug and play - installation is literally a matter of replacing your factory ECU with this unit.  No re-wiring or cutting wires is required.

 

This L-jetro MAF version includes the following features:

    * 20x20 fuel map adjustments
    * 20x20 ignition map adjustment
    * Cold start enrichment adjustment
    * Idle / AC RPM adjustment
    * Water temperature compensation
    * Fuel injector size & lag time correction
    * 1, 2, 4, or 8 channel real time monitoring of vital engine parameters
    * Boost controller addon kit (sold seperately)
« Last Edit: 06:03:07 AM / 03-Jul-08 by ATMA »

Offline Arro

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #3 on: 10:42:04 AM / 03-Jul-08 »
SR20DET has a WHOLE lot of options... you should have posted this in the SR20DET section, but I'll move the thread.

How much is the Power FC?
« Last Edit: 10:43:40 AM / 03-Jul-08 by Arro »
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
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'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
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Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
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Offline Draconis

SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #4 on: 11:38:03 AM / 03-Jul-08 »
Emanage Ult is all but a standalone.  It only reads one or two things off your ECU and the rest are taken care of by the EMU.  I've had one and they are quite respectable.

But

For the price you pay for a full correct setup for one, with all the extra parts, might as well go Power FC.  I prefer PFC since it is more widely used and therefore more knowledge is out there.  That and GReddy doesnt really give the best of support for their EMU on their site... at least the last time I checked.

If you go with EMU, check out Mohdparts.com.

Offline nismo200sx16

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #5 on: 03:28:50 PM / 03-Jul-08 »
I would go with the power fc .  if I had it to do over again thats the way I would do it. I would get the d-jetro though not the L . I went with a jim wolf rom tune and a afc2. it works well and I made my 400rwhp goal. but for the cost I probably could have had a used power fc. and had control over timing not just fuel.

Offline Arro

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #6 on: 04:00:11 PM / 03-Jul-08 »
Nismo200sx16 do you have a build thread or something in the Garage section? I'm sure ATMA and myself among others would like to see and read the details of your car.
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline bartc_j

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #7 on: 05:10:29 PM / 03-Jul-08 »
well all u need to ask urself is can i(meaning you) tune with the standalone or not..

if you cant then id go with a piggy back but if you can tune yourself then then standalone is the way to go but if you cant tune it yourself and go standalone expect it to get really $$$ when you start adding goodies and needing a tune
Bart
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Offline ATMA

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #8 on: 08:30:55 PM / 03-Jul-08 »
hm thanks guys this is some insightful info ill open up a build thread once i start working on the car here soon ;p

Offline seishuku

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #9 on: 11:25:31 PM / 04-Jul-08 »
Piggyback are a big no no, IMO. They rely on lying to the stock ECU, which is bad.
Standalone is usually too expensive, but that depends on what you really need...

I have a question though, have you considered reprogramming the stock ECU? The OEM computers are well documented and fairly capable.
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Offline bartc_j

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #10 on: 12:19:17 AM / 05-Jul-08 »
Quote from: seishuku
Piggyback are a big no no, IMO. They rely on lying to the stock ECU, which is bad.
Standalone is usually too expensive, but that depends on what you really need...

I have a question though, have you considered reprogramming the stock ECU? The OEM computers are well documented and fairly capable.
great point i completly forgot about that one.. ya jim wolf and many others do great reflashes for the sr.. buddy had one making about 450whp with no issues with just a reflash as far as ecu modding goes, the only pitfall is just as the piggy back if you add mods later you may need another reflash for the new goodies, but even doing a few reflashes would still be cheaper then a standalone
Bart
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Offline seishuku

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #11 on: 10:46:19 AM / 05-Jul-08 »
It's not a hard DIY either, and there are a few tuning shops that can retune a "chipped" ECU.

Though, if you go with someone like JWT, you can't really reprogram it, because they encode the ROMs.
Matt W.
Daily: 2011 Camaro V6
Previous: 2013 VW Jetta TDI super polluter (getting bought back)

Offline nismo200sx16

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #12 on: 09:45:06 PM / 05-Jul-08 »
Quote from: Arro
Nismo200sx16 do you have a build thread or something in the Garage section? I'm sure ATMA and myself among others would like to see and read the details of your car.

check my car domain in my sig. I up date that every once and a while. and their are lots of pix. and I just put up vids of my recent dyno pulls in the club theater section.

Offline sil80

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SR20DET: Stand Alone Vs Piggy Back ECU's
« Reply #13 on: 04:15:53 AM / 07-Jul-08 »
I would choose either a AEM or Autronic EMS..   Though if you are trying to save money the Power FC will offer a slightly higher resolution tune than the Factory ECU.