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Author Topic: Rear End/differential Variations  (Read 35673 times)

Offline Driftsilvia86

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Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #20 on: 04:55:09 PM / 23-Mar-10 »
if this is in the wrong post, im sorry..   would this diff work in our car ?   http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kaaz-2-Way-...sQ5fAccessories

or any one the is made for OPEN s13 case right??

Offline gerrybg

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Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #21 on: 07:12:49 PM / 23-Mar-10 »
Just want to fix some mistakes with this thread:

1. You don't need custom manufactured CV's to fit an S13 or series 1 s14 VLSD diff centre into an s12 series R200.What you need is to blend a LHS S12/Z31 CV with a RHS S13 or series 1 S14 CV. Its just a matter of dismantling the inner CV bearing on each type of shaft and reassembling the S12/Z31 Cv with the S13 or S14 series one Bearing and 6 bolt cover fitted to it. Then the output shaft that slots into the diff can be bolted up to it, (you need to cut 8mm off the end of the output shaft spline using a cut off wheel) and this new hybrid CV shaft then fits into your s12 and operates the viscous diff.

Anyone with an angle grinder and spanners can do this.

The s13 and s14 6bolt CV bearing are a direct swap with the s12/Z31 ones and the CV shaft is the same diameter.

KEY POINT: series 2 s14 onwards diffs (and Z32's etc) use CV's 5 bolt type which have a bigger diameter shaft and splines, so these diffs and CV shafts will not work for an s12 diff!!

2. An mechanical LSd centre to suit an s13 or series 1 s14 6 bolt originally OPEN diff will fit an s12/Z31 housing and work with the NORMAL s12 and Z31 factory CV's no problem, (BUT NOT a replacemnet diff centre to suit a Z32, s14 series II diff as these need bigger diameter splines)
« Last Edit: 07:25:44 PM / 23-Mar-10 by gerrybg »

Offline alundra

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Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #22 on: 10:20:41 AM / 12-Aug-10 »
Quote
2. An mechanical LSd centre to suit an s13 or series 1 s14 6 bolt originally OPEN diff will fit an s12/Z31 housing and work with the NORMAL s12 and Z31 factory CV's no problem, (BUT NOT a replacemnet diff centre to suit a Z32, s14 series II diff as these need bigger diameter splines

The fact is no one tried yet.

I know welded cars, OBX hlsd one because it's made for 10 & 12 mm bolts, an uk guy which fitted an VLSD from S13 with some mods said above.

Offline gerrybg

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Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #23 on: 09:12:06 PM / 13-Aug-10 »
Fact is they have tried it I have done it on mine.

Offline Dave

Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #24 on: 05:56:33 AM / 05-Sep-10 »
Quote from: gerrybg
Its just a matter of dismantling the inner CV bearing on each type of shaft and reassembling the S12/Z31 Cv with the S13 or S14 series one Bearing and 6 bolt cover fitted to it. Then the output shaft that slots into the diff can be bolted up to it, (you need to cut 8mm off the end of the output shaft spline using a cut off wheel) and this new hybrid CV shaft then fits into your s12 and operates the viscous diff.

Okay, can you clear this up for me please:

The driver's side output shaft has to be cut 8mm shorter on the part that is inside the diff?  You also have to swap the CV bearing and cover (?) from an S13 and the whole thing will slide in and work with the internals from a stock S13 VLSD?

All this using a S12's open R200 case?

Will this work using non-turbo Z32 VLSD internals as well? (not the output shafts, just the ring gear, viscous coupling and all that)

Offline Gollum

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #25 on: 01:21:19 PM / 05-Jan-11 »
Seems like most of the info around S12 diff swaps are related to using S13/S14 parts, but does anyone have in info about using the CLSD longnose from the 88-89 turbo Z31? Or what about swapping to the commonly available subie CLSD R180 longnose?

Both of those options are bulletproof and a way better option than any VLSD imo.

Offline Maxpow

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #26 on: 10:20:11 PM / 05-Jan-11 »
You can use the longnose from the 88-89 turbo's. Get the axles to be safe and they should work fine with our cars. These are harder than hell to find in my area, if you can find them they are worth more to sell on the internet than to keep.

I am curious about the subie thing though.
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Offline Gollum

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #27 on: 01:27:48 AM / 06-Jan-11 »
The subie R180 is identical to a Z r180 when it comes to mounting. The issues come when considering the axles, which are CV joints. This usually requires custom axles that still rely on the S30's stub axle, a major weak link imo.

The S12 already has CV shafts though, so I was thinking it might be possible to tear the subie axle apart and mate it with the S12 axles. There's also the R160 which is the same physical size, and ridiculously cheap, and will hold at least 300hp or so. The subie clutch r180 has proven to take well over 600hp with no signs of stress. They bombpoof.

The CLSD Z31 diff is hard to find anywhere, but I've been lucky enough to find a few. Sold them all though, needed the money more than I needed the part.

Offline Maxpow

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #28 on: 07:50:22 AM / 06-Jan-11 »
Interesting. Some people on the site think that if the s12 axles are opened they cannot be put back together, but I "rebuilt" one by opening it and lubing it and it seems to work fine so it might be a possibility to do what you are suggesting.


The junkyards around here don't have ANY subies period... at least I am not seeing them so I am curious what kind of prices you can find for those r180's and r160's... however, why not just get an OBX LSD Unit and swap it into an R200. The r200 is a great fucking diff there is no denying it. Things last forever, my last one made it a whopping 285,000 miles before it finally died (never had fluid replaced, metal soup).
« Last Edit: 07:50:33 AM / 06-Jan-11 by Maxpow »
1987 Nissan 200sx SE ("The Squirrely Drifter") - Totaled and Gone forever
1987 Nissan 200sx SE ("The Weebly Wobbler") - Impounded and Gone forever
2007 Kia Spectra - Fantastic Daily Driver - Custom CAI, NGK wires/plugs.
2002 Hyundai Accent - Totaled and Gone Forever.

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Offline Gollum

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #29 on: 10:40:57 AM / 06-Jan-11 »
Yea, the R200 is a stout piece for sure. But LSD conversions for the longnose are pricey. I could probably snag a CLSD R160 with axles for under $150. The subie R180 would probably be a bit more, but still quite a bit less than the CLSD R200's. The cost and availability are the main reasons S30 guys convert to the short nose diffs. Plus another benefit is that the R180 is quite a bit lighter. Not a huge deal, but it's a factor.

Another reason to consider the R180 for some people would be that they might already have a R180 in their S12, making it an easier swap.


All this being said, you S12 guys have it way easier than S30 guys, because the S13 diffs are almost bolt in compared to our Z car options.

Offline JonB

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #30 on: 10:55:31 AM / 06-Jan-11 »
All this being said, you S12 guys have it way easier than S30 guys, because the S13 diffs are almost bolt in compared to our Z car options.

I don't know about all that. I'd worry about flexing between the rear subframe and diff on our applications.

Our rear subframes only have two rubber mounts, then the diff mounts solidly with four large bolts to the subframe, and a third rubber mount to the body is off of the back of the diff. It'd be really difficult to mount a shortnose in place of the long nose and have it support the subframe correctly.

Offline Maxpow

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #31 on: 12:43:23 AM / 23-Jan-11 »
So if I were to swap a 3.54 r200 into my SE I should see about 10-11% decrease in rpm's at a given speed? I realize less torque but that's not really that much of a problem, I need gas mileage and top speed. Remote mount will solve any torque issues down the road.
1987 Nissan 200sx SE ("The Squirrely Drifter") - Totaled and Gone forever
1987 Nissan 200sx SE ("The Weebly Wobbler") - Impounded and Gone forever
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Offline RLM_RSX

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #32 on: 07:22:04 PM / 24-Jan-11 »
just some info to add if it helps anyone
the front pinion flange on a s13 diff can be swapped to a r200 s12 diff. i know this because i had a custom driveshaft made for my ka s12 swap and ended up with s13 rear diff flange on the driveshaft.  rather than have them redo it and have to order parts in i used the pinion input flange from an s13 open diff.  all i had to do was swap the dust shields that protect the front seals.  mounting depth and spline count are exactly the same.
this may be usefull since i was able to use the same ujoints for both ends of my driveshaft and the increase in strength at the flange.

Offline Wolf Dilworth

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #33 on: 08:08:41 PM / 24-Jan-11 »
Boing!

Offline Phisherman09

Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #34 on: 10:14:33 PM / 24-Jan-11 »
just some info to add if it helps anyone
the front pinion flange on a s13 diff can be swapped to a r200 s12 diff. i know this because i had a custom driveshaft made for my ka s12 swap and ended up with s13 rear diff flange on the driveshaft.  rather than have them redo it and have to order parts in i used the pinion input flange from an s13 open diff.  all i had to do was swap the dust shields that protect the front seals.  mounting depth and spline count are exactly the same.
this may be usefull since i was able to use the same ujoints for both ends of my driveshaft and the increase in strength at the flange.

i read that  text and iwas like "oh damn!". then  i forgot to reply to your text lol.
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Offline gerrybg

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #35 on: 06:32:43 AM / 28-Mar-11 »
Sorry haven't been on here for ages. My description above is confusing on one point. Its the standard s12 R200 CV for the LHS you need to cut 8mm off the end of the spline that goes into the diff, not the hybrid s13/s12 RHS CV, (sorry I was tired when I wrote that).

Cost is not prohibitive, I got my VLSD s13 CV centre for $80 and it had been reshimmed  to very tight by its previous owner, (you also need to get the RHS output shaft and RHS CV with it).  Hardest thing was tracking down an extra LHS s12/Z31 R200 CV to hybridize for the RHS.

I also paid a diff specialist to set up the backlash with the new centre fitted.

The reason I did this is because I'm a tight arse and it was very cheap to do compared to trying to track down a long nose clutch type R200. I'm in Australia and they are very rare and expensive here, might be cheaper and more readily available in the US. If so then that would be a better option of course.
« Last Edit: 06:34:47 AM / 28-Mar-11 by gerrybg »

Offline jimbrowniii

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #36 on: 08:25:45 PM / 14-May-11 »
 Does anyone know which of these quaife diffs i need? I have a  86 200sx (ca20e originally) irs open diff r180

http://www.quaifelsd.com/applications.aspx
Nissan R180 24-280Z (110mm crownwheel)   [4spd 1969- 7/1976]  QDF4L 1,069.75
Nissan R180 24-280Z (115mm crownwheel)   [4spd 8/1976>]         QDF5L 1,069.75

 If not one of these,what brand and what real diff do i need for my r180? I've been searching for days trying to find a direct swap diff to buy. I have no time for going to the junkyard and searching for something that requires modding to work. I just want to spend the money and get a real diff and be done.  Thanks for any help.

Offline jimbrowniii

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #37 on: 02:34:02 AM / 17-May-11 »
noone knows? :gum:

Offline Prolowtone

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #38 on: 06:58:06 AM / 17-May-11 »
Calm down lol, its only been a day since you posted and we all can be busy :) We that have the R180 are almost limited to welding the diff.... If you do manage to find a Quaife (I would be pretty jealous as i want one to) You need to get the 115mm crown. I have heard a murmur of a R160 out of a Subaru WRX bolts in but i have yet to know if that is in fact true, It does seem plausible but dont take my word on it just yet. I am looking for one locally to try :P
 
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Offline jimbrowniii

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Re: Rear End/differential Variations
« Reply #39 on: 02:35:56 AM / 19-May-11 »
awsome thats more info than i had if i find anything useful ill let you guys know too