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Author Topic: Curb Weights for S12 and many other cars  (Read 31240 times)

Offline TalkingGoats

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« Reply #20 on: 01:48:59 PM / 30-Sep-08 »
These cars are not heavy. SE's are about normal for a sports cars weight. These cars have poor power to weight.

I would like to see someone put a real full cage in and 1/16" aluminum everything non structural in the cockpit, tube the front end ...etc. That would be a sub 2,000lbs super safe car.
I'd rather be a matchstick than a lighter.

Offline Arro

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« Reply #21 on: 05:06:12 PM / 30-Sep-08 »
Quote from: rage
BS, i think hes realized how outlandish his quest is for the 2200lb s12. you would really have to swiss cheese an s12 chassis to get it that low, like the opera s2000. it definitely wouldnt come as easy as stripping it bare. hell, my s12 has nothing on it and its still quite heavy. the sad truth here is that were dealing with heavy cars from the factory

lol if you think S12's are "heavy" you need to look up car weights on many other popular tuner cars.

2,355 lbs. - 240Z
2,500 lbs. - Nissan Sentra (current)
2,524 lbs. - Toyota MR2 Mark II
2,625 lbs. - Maxda RX-7 (FC)
2,640 lbs. - 200SX (S12 Turbo/NA 4 cyl)
2,659 lbs. - 2G Dodge Neon/SRT-4
2,699 lbs. - 240SX (S13)
2,756 lbs. - Honda S2000 (2,855 lbs. in later years)
2,762 lbs. - 240SX (S14)
2,772 lbs. - 200SX (S12 "SE" V6)
2,840 lbs. - Honda Prelude (4G 1992-96)
2,899 lbs. - Honda Civic Si (2007 coupe)
3,000 lbs. - Subaru WRX (2G)
3,095 lbs. - Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (1G)
3,153 lbs. - Skyline GT-R (R34)
3,157 lbs. - Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (2G)
3,300 lbs. - 300ZX 2-seater (Z31)
3,265 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark IV
3,299 lbs. - 300ZX (Z32)
3,468 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark III


If anything, we're on the lighter side of the spectrum, even with heavier engines put in. Taking out all the sound deadening, carpets, interior panels, spare tire and jack, rear seat, miscellaneous dash components, and putting in some lightweight front seats... you're now running with the reeeeeally lightweight cars. Remove the passenger seat and you get even lighter.

My car has a KA24DE in it... S12 w/ KA24DE is 2,748 with full interior and sound deadening, jack and spare, etc. I have over half of those items mentioned above removed from my car, and just a driver seat. The stock passenger seat is a heavy POS, and together with the rear seat, jack, and spare tire removed, I'm probably good for nearly 100-125 lbs. reduction right there, so... I'm guessing I'm between 2,625 and 2,650.

Sterling has removed a lot of crap from his, and others have done so as well. I think a 2,200 lb. CA20E/CA18ET car *might* indeed be possible, especially with a notchback which I believe is actually lighter than the hatch (the posted weights for the S12 are the hatchback model).
« Last Edit: 05:37:26 PM / 30-Sep-08 by Arro »
-Jason Arro


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formerly,
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Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline rage

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« Reply #22 on: 12:31:15 AM / 01-Oct-08 »
i guess i need to weigh mine

im aware of the weights of those cars and the bottom portion are what i routinely call 'heffers'

i guess when i think of a light road car
hachi's, MK1 and MK3 MR2's(MR-S), cr-x's, miatas, etc.. come to mind and eventually id like to get the s12 down there, but like i said wont come easy without being creative

TX > CA

Offline IggyEGuana

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« Reply #23 on: 01:49:42 AM / 01-Oct-08 »
damn Arro where'd u find all those weights?  google fails me for curb weight listings

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Offline Arro

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« Reply #24 on: 02:12:49 AM / 01-Oct-08 »
Quote from: rage
i guess i need to weigh mine

im aware of the weights of those cars and the bottom portion are what i routinely call 'heffers'

i guess when i think of a light road car
hachi's, MK1 and MK3 MR2's(MR-S), cr-x's, miatas, etc.. come to mind and eventually id like to get the s12 down there, but like i said wont come easy without being creative

With the exception of the AE86 (2,300 lbs.), the other cars you listed are SMALL 2-seater cars, not at all comparable in expectations with a 4-seater mid-size hatchback with a large sloped rear glass pane that itself weighs a lot. Again, I think you might be judging this chassis against unfair comparisons -- which is why I didn't list them.

BUT, can you get it to that range of weight? YES, I still believe it's possible
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #25 on: 04:40:28 AM / 01-Oct-08 »
this is a great thread!

yeah, 2200lbs. LOL.

I have goals. Aspirations. Ideas.

not all are quite reachable  

but aim high, young man, and you may see the stars someday!

lol

I may have come close, but the heavier brakes and suspension parts pretty much blew that one.  but, we will see, in time...
 
I really want the guy with the race notch to post up more info!  where are ya, man???
« Last Edit: 04:41:12 AM / 01-Oct-08 by 200sxkitcar »
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Offline Arro

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« Reply #26 on: 11:45:44 AM / 01-Oct-08 »
You mean "tac911t" a.k.a. Todd Cohen w/ 1984 200SX SCCA ITB?

ITB's??? Yeah I wanna hear more about this! Looks like he's been here since '03.
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline IggyEGuana

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« Reply #27 on: 01:18:42 PM / 01-Oct-08 »
I think ITB is a class or series or somthing like that but he needs to do a thread all bout his car

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you sir are emblazoned with win.

Offline Arro

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« Reply #28 on: 03:48:45 PM / 01-Oct-08 »
Seems you're right, "In The Beginning" class if my searching is correct.

Quote
The Improved Touring category is broken into four classes based on the performance potential of the car. Those classes are Improved Touring A (ITA), Improved Touring B (ITB), Improved Touring C (ITC), and Improved Touring S (ITS). New for 2007, the Improved Touring R (ITR) will be added for former T2, T3, and other cars with a performance level too high for the current classes (like the 1997-1999 Porsche Boxster, 1989-1996 Nissan 300Z, Honda S2000, V6 Chevrolet Camaro and a variety of BMWs).

These basic rules make Improved Touring a popular class, since familiar and modern cars race together in groups which maximize the chances for a close finish.
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline tac911t

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« Reply #29 on: 01:16:42 PM / 02-Oct-08 »
Quote from: IggyEGuana
how much do you think the cage adds to the car?  Any other mods for safety or otherwise that add weight?  I assume that all AC components inside and out are gone along with all unneeded emissions and electronic equipment and all sound deadening.   Chassis stitch welded?  Media blasted and reshot or just sprayed over the old paint?  Any plexi-glass/lexan windows?  Custom harness with only wiring needed?  Undercarriage blasted and reshot?  Thats all I can think of that I wanna do with my car.  Mayb acid dip it lol.  Dont think they even do that anymore.  I'm just trying to get an idea of how extensive your weight reduction is and what kind of weight I'm really gonna be.  Thanks tons for posting your weight!

Not sure on the weight of the cage.  It is an Autopower with door bars added.  AC has been removed.  Most of the sound deadening has been removed, all that remains is on the passenger side.  The IT SCCA class provides for removal of some unneeded items, but we still race with the interor door panels, and rear quarter panels.  Door panels can be removed if bars are added across the door.  No chassis stiffing is allowed, and no changes to the wiring harness, and a fuel cell can be added (I am still running with the original tank).  The CA20 is classed as an ITB (runs against VW's, Honda's, and other 1800 - 2000 liter cars) and the V6 is classed in ITS (RX7's, BMW's, Z cars).
Todd Cohen
1984 200SX SCCA ITB

Offline Arro

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« Reply #30 on: 05:13:31 PM / 02-Oct-08 »
I would wager the cage adds at least another 200 pounds or perhaps even more, as they're pretty stout (and that translates to *heavy*).

Todd, where do you hail from, and what tracks do you race on?
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline Lynium

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« Reply #31 on: 05:26:04 AM / 05-Oct-08 »
200sx heavey??? LMAO!!! No offense, but the precise reason i didnt scrap mine was because its so light and agile... and I have a stock ca20e... i can toss it around and drift n skid n slid it like nothing... i cant wait to work out droppin in the 2.3L turbo! its gona be rank! I had an 83 cordoba.. now THAT was heavey... a 91 Talon... that was fairly heavey.... the 91 daytona... ugh... not heavey, but not light... the 2 XR4Ti in my driveway... heavey!

My lil Nissy... hehe... like supermodel light...

Of course thats all my opinion... however, last weekeend when i went to pick up my kid, i happened past a wiegh scale.. id been itching to wiegh it, as its wieght is the exact very reason I didnt go about making an aluminum frame/chassi etc, and basicaly building a lightwieght go-cart that i'd disguise as a car.. hehe

anyways, i wieghed in at 1260 kg (dont know what it is in pounds) and then kicked the kid out, and got out myself, wich brought it down to 1130kg. fluids all topped up... (Well not certain bout tranny) and about 3/4 tank of fuel.

then when i got home the next day, i ditched the rusted spare tire, Jack, the tent, a few other odds n ends, and also ripped the grose insulation off the back of the trunk mat. stacked all on the tire and lifted.. rough guess, 80-100pnds...

I should be takin him back tommorrow, and will be re-weighing on my way through, also note, i got a rough guess of around 70-110pnds of stuff still in the trunk... subs in box, amp, crossover, cap, and a 2nd battery all wired in. I want to lighten the car further, as much as possible kinda thing, although without going retarded on it... maybe a plexi-glass hood or something .. or cut out a nice patern in the hood, cover with coloured plexi n put some lights in the engine bay...

OOooo.... theres an idea..hmm...

hehe
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Offline IggyEGuana

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« Reply #32 on: 12:28:09 AM / 06-Oct-08 »
1130kg = 2491.2lbs

Amazing weight there.  MK1.5 notch.  Not stripped or anything and with extra crap in it.  The car low option?  Manual windows and such?

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Offline Radracer_S

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« Reply #33 on: 01:13:27 AM / 06-Oct-08 »
Mine was 2442 lbs with 17in rims and auto. I was close to reaching the 2002 mazada miata. I hope I can still do better taking off the weight.


Power is Nuttin without control!!!!
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Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #34 on: 02:29:58 AM / 06-Oct-08 »
shit, I might be closer to 2200 than I thought...
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Offline seishuku

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« Reply #35 on: 04:30:29 PM / 06-Oct-08 »
Mine's 2400 flat with the way it sits now, not sure where I could pull out another 200LBS though...
Back hatch glass for sure, tubular suspension arms would help, maybe a tubular chromoly front crossmember (I know that thing isn't light).

Sterling, you're probably right around 2300, since you don't have that heavy ass hatch glass to worry about.  We'll find out soon enough though, right?
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Offline Wilkie

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« Reply #36 on: 05:11:58 PM / 07-Oct-08 »
Quote from: Arro
2,355 lbs. - 240Z
2,500 lbs. - Nissan Sentra (current)
2,524 lbs. - Toyota MR2 Mark II
2,625 lbs. - Maxda RX-7 (FC)
2,640 lbs. - 200SX (S12 Turbo/NA 4 cyl)
2,659 lbs. - 2G Dodge Neon/SRT-4
2,699 lbs. - 240SX (S13)
2,756 lbs. - Honda S2000 (2,855 lbs. in later years)
2,762 lbs. - 240SX (S14)
2,772 lbs. - 200SX (S12 "SE" V6)
2,840 lbs. - Honda Prelude (4G 1992-96)
2,899 lbs. - Honda Civic Si (2007 coupe)
3,000 lbs. - Subaru WRX (2G)
3,095 lbs. - Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (1G)
3,153 lbs. - Skyline GT-R (R34)
3,157 lbs. - Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (2G)
3,300 lbs. - 300ZX 2-seater (Z31)
3,265 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark IV
3,299 lbs. - 300ZX (Z32)
3,468 lbs. - Toyota Supra Mark III
Just a question because a friend of mine has been having a "friendly" debate with me, but where does the Supra MkII fit in here?  I'm also surprised that the AE86 or Rx-7 FD aren't even on that list.
~Wilkie
--------------------------------------------
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Offline Xano

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« Reply #37 on: 05:45:47 PM / 07-Oct-08 »
Quote from: Wilkie
Just a question because a friend of mine has been having a "friendly" debate with me, but where does the Supra MkII fit in here?  I'm also surprised that the AE86 or Rx-7 FD aren't even on that list.
AE86 is between 1900 and 2200 lbs factory.

RX-7 FD is between 3200 and 3600,

Thats off the top of my head though.
« Last Edit: 05:46:06 PM / 07-Oct-08 by Xano »
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Offline 200sxkitcar

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« Reply #38 on: 03:08:06 AM / 08-Oct-08 »
Quote from: seishuku

Sterling, you're probably right around 2300, since you don't have that heavy ass hatch glass to worry about.  We'll find out soon enough though, right?

Hell yeah!  2300ish is sorta likely, the last 100lbs could be a bitch, esp with the chassis reinforcement I have to do b/c of rot damage.  I'll get there, maybe, eventually, lol
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Offline Xano

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« Reply #39 on: 04:06:48 AM / 08-Oct-08 »
Quote from: 200sxkitcar
Hell yeah!  2300ish is sorta likely, the last 100lbs could be a bitch, esp with the chassis reinforcement I have to do b/c of rot damage.  I'll get there, maybe, eventually, lol
lol hell, after another 5 years, without fixing any rust rot, you'll be below 2000 lbs sterling =P
~xano