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Author Topic: Vq/vg Option Swaps Only  (Read 29888 times)

Offline brewster240

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Vq/vg Option Swaps Only
« Reply #40 on: 12:41:06 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: Draconis
AS for the integrated system, yes it can be done.  But honestly, I would def. have to stand with Arro on this one.  For the main collective of us on here, it would be a bit out of our league.  The wiring alone needs to be overhauled in the entire car.  I have only seen this once attempted.  S13 coupe with the current day Holden Manaro/Pontiac GTO.  They literally ripped the entire wiring harness out of the GTO and placed it into the S13.  All they did was modify the connections and lengths to make it fit and connect to the Nissan points.  It took a while but was well worth it.  That beast drove and sounded like nothing else.  So if you want to go that route, you may want to consider that type of electrical swap instead of trying to repin/modify the existing wiring harness to fit the stock S12 harness.  If done, I would give major props to that person.  I have done a bit but that's not something I would look forward too personally.

thats kinda dumb since the gm harness' are easy to brake down and make standalone, or there are many prewired harness setups available to do it.

i kept trying to tell that lt1 kid that who kept going on and on about his speed sensor.

Offline Sean1978

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« Reply #41 on: 12:44:26 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Just buy the shit and do it. I'm sure it can be done. My roomate has a VQ30 FWD and 2 RWD VQ35DE's and a 350Z manual trans sitting in the garage and I'm contemplating the swap myself. Guy named mark who has a VQ35 in his S13 with the stock ECU comes to my house often. He's working on putting one into a B13 sentra at the moment.

I'm sure it's a lot easier with a standalone. this site sells a standalone AND a harness:
link

Take your money and buy the stuff, then we can have an actual technical discussion about real problems instead of pondering everything as if we are trying to pull off some impossible task.

quality > quantity


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Offline Draconis

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« Reply #42 on: 12:48:04 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: julie
there wouldnt be engine swaps if people didnt that the plunge and give it a try. if it works out, great... you just pioneered the VQ swap into an s12s. if u fail, so what. atleast u tried it and wasnt all talk. the info you gain from the failure will be useful for the next person who tries it and someone, somday, might succeed in pairing that motor into this chassis.

good luck if you attempt it


I totally agree with you.  I remember a very similar argument when I first talked about doing my RB swap.  All talk no go.  The weight would be messed up.  The modification is incredibly heavy and would take a lot of money, skills and such.  

Let me see.  I proved it can be done on a budget without heaps of money.  The modification was there but not abnormal like so many had ideas about.  Actually from what I found out AFTER I did my swap, my modification/fabrication was very much akin to what they do in the domestic muscle cars back in the day.  Apparently the route I took was similar in fashion to ones that were taken before.  The weight wasnt that much more than the VG30E.  Yes, the Rb weighed a little more and mostly due to it's length, but it only increased the front's weight by 1 or 2% and the car still handled VERY well and was quite responsive.  Yes, a couple attempts and ideas were fail, but from those we were able to figure out what worked and hit something golden.


Like I said before, if I could, I would have tried VQ.  If I had the chance and ability to now, I would.  I dont think it's that far out of the realm.  If anything, getting it into the car is the easy part.  The hard part is the wiring and electronics to match up to our car and run properly.  If you do VQ, just do your research.  Like anything, do your research.  Yes, talking on forums helps but at some point you have to do your own thinking for all you get is this stuff.  Some people for it.  Some people against it.  Some people dont care.  Others that understand but pepper in caution and good advice.  And some people who will say stuff just because even though they are just an armchair tuner/mechanic/know-it-all.  That is what I did.  I heard a lot of shit and very few supported me.  I did my own reading and looking at other setups.  I found someone who was willing to help me out in the areas I knew little about.  Did some basic concept drawings and planning.  Once I felt confident enough that it was possible and not impossible, I delved into the project head first.
« Last Edit: 12:58:11 PM / 09-Dec-08 by Draconis »

Offline nismologist

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« Reply #43 on: 01:05:16 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
if i end up going vq i will take the entire harness with it.and get rid of mine.

YOU THOUGHT SO, BUT I KNOW SO.
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Offline Arro

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« Reply #44 on: 01:26:51 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: nismologist
if i end up going vq i will take the entire harness with it.and get rid of mine.

Well that's kinda how it is for like, every swap. Still gotta splice it into your dash harness, so you can get your cluster and whatnot working right.... some harnesses require other body harness components. I had this discussion in the SR20VE thread, and someone reminded me that the JDM engines aren't as dependent as ours are with the chassis... but that wouldn't be the case with a USDM VQ. You might end up having to transplant odd sensors you never expected, so be prepared for that.
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Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
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Offline SlickS12

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« Reply #45 on: 01:31:47 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: nismologist
i dont want to turbo the vg30e cuz wouldnt i have to replace the pistons?that wouldnt be fun at all.


Id suggest a rebuild of any engine you choose to swap into your car for reliability purposes.  If you are tearing down the motor to rebuild it why not throw some lower compression pistons while you're at it?  Im not advocating the vg30e necessarily for the turbo cause Ive heard nothing but headaches come from them, but if you want to make power, turbos are your friends  
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Offline nismologist

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« Reply #46 on: 01:57:31 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
i need a fun,reliable car.not perticularly a tire roasting beast.maybe i will just get another vg and have it blueprinted,port and polished,and head work done.that would give me some extra power.I GOT IT!!!i think a vg30e with headwork and a supercharger.ive seen that in the forum somewhere.less of a headache and a lot easier.
« Last Edit: 01:58:25 PM / 09-Dec-08 by nismologist »

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Offline EightySix200SX

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« Reply #47 on: 02:50:07 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
lol weve got a vq35de and 6spd tranny sitting in my buddys garage..... no harness though just motor and tranny
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Offline Leegamer

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« Reply #48 on: 02:56:32 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: nismologist
i need a fun,reliable car.not perticularly a tire roasting beast.maybe i will just get another vg and have it blueprinted,port and polished,and head work done.that would give me some extra power.I GOT IT!!!i think a vg30e with headwork and a supercharger.ive seen that in the forum somewhere.less of a headache and a lot easier.


If you want NA power from a VG, the VG30E is not the way to go.  If you can fit the supercharger to it, that would be interesting, but you'd be better off going VG33 than you would be with a fully "built" VG30E.

Offline nismologist

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« Reply #49 on: 03:03:49 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
when the time comes i will let you guys know.i know its going to be vg.i just want the car done for summer./if i do vq i will be wiring it all summer.i dont like that idea of working all summer and driving it in winter.maybe just the vg33er will suffice.

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Offline Arro

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« Reply #50 on: 04:30:37 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Check it out, y0...

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VG_engine#VG33ER

Quote
The 3.3 L (3275 cc) VG33ER is supercharged and produces 210 hp (157 kW) at 4800 rpm with 246 ft·lbf (334 Nm) of torque at 2800 rpm.

That's the same hp as a 2G turbo DSM, and nearly as much torque. Without the lagtime!

I can tell you this much man, throw a 4:11 turbo rear end in your car, and you'll be kickin'. I'm guestimating that my KA w/ 2.5" full exhaust and an intake is somewhere around 175-180hp and probably closer to 200 ft-lbs.... and ask the handful of people who've driven it, and they'll tell you it's already a little rocket.

I've been reading and paying attention to what it is you're actually after as far as results go... a VG33ER w/ 4:11 rear end, 2.5" exhaust, and an intake... will nab you that and then some, I think you'll have a shit-eating grin the first time you get in it and get on the pedal.
« Last Edit: 04:31:49 PM / 09-Dec-08 by Arro »
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline nismologist

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« Reply #51 on: 07:24:00 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
youre right.i think im going to go check one out soon.im yearning for the charged engine.it all depends.im actually going to think and study my options and post my final ideas and see what you guys think.arro thanks for the info man.it helps.
« Last Edit: 07:33:51 PM / 09-Dec-08 by nismologist »

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Offline Leegamer

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« Reply #52 on: 07:54:06 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
The VG33E is a pretty torquey feeling engine, my mom has one in her Frontier, but I've never driven a car/truck with the ER installed.  I'd definitely be interested in seeing one installed in an S12.  A few people have done th VG33e-T in Z31s and it's awesome.

Offline gadget1382

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« Reply #53 on: 08:54:21 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Ok, as mentioned before in other threads.

I am doing VQ30det+t.

I have spent probably the last year and a half researching and collating info and parts and still am no where near finished before i start lining up the engine to the body.

VQ30det's have not 1, but 3 timing chains, have 4 rpm sensors and share componenets with VQ30de's and SR20's and VQ35's and to a lesser extent the VQ41 and VQ25...

S13's have been taking the VQ30 and VQ35 quite easily with the adapter kits that are available. Though most are shonky and i'd rather not use them! Not to mention they would need "adjusting" anyway to fit our chassis.

The best thing is the TT kit's and supercharger kits bolt straight up!

I will let you know now. The ECU wiring is linked to the key code on the chassis security system. which you will need to bypass or splice in. You will have many fault codes in which you need to fake signals to overcome and a stand alone system for them are not cheap.

I have spliced myself (non - electrical engineer) an S13 loom into my S12 to get a CA18det and a stage 2 auto from the same 180SX (your 240SX) to work. It took AGES and was a nightmare to get running propperly without signal loops etc. (3-6months) But it's done. Since then i have realised despite the diagrams on forums, they are nothing compared to actually doing it.

The VQ35 in particular will potrude beyond the bonnet as they are taller than the VG as the V angle is less. The VQHR will cause extra issues with dual intakes etc, but a converted FW VQ30-35 from a maxima will possibly offer easier installation. The X-terra you guys get also has a supercharged RWD version... that would kick ass! Navara ones are also available in 4lt's!

Anywho...



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Offline nismologist

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« Reply #54 on: 08:59:40 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
VG is definitely the motor type im sticking with.just quicker.

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Offline gadget1382

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« Reply #55 on: 09:10:09 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Wise move.

Now if sticking NA, consult the Zed owners as they have been re-building and working those since their inception.

Dont get me wrong, i would love to see a VQ35de or even VQ35HR in an S12, i just think, like many, that it takes a hell of alot more commitment, both time and financially to go down that path that what many are prepared to commit.

I, on the other hand, am proud to say i'm nuts, but have nutty friends supporting my idea's.
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Offline nismologist

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« Reply #56 on: 10:59:00 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
i got the financial and the commitment.i dont have the time.i refuse to have any other car to drive but my se.the vq will simply take to much time.i cant afford to have no car all summer.plus the drives in the summer in cali are something i must have in an s12.doesnt the vg33er bolt up to my c transmission?it is a truck motor exclusively  i think.wikipedia here i come.

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Offline Draconis

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« Reply #57 on: 11:29:21 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Should be able to bolt up to a C tranny.  I think all the VGs came with a C tranny.  What you may need to worry about though is the bell housing.

Quote from: gadget1382
I, on the other hand, am proud to say i'm nuts, but have nutty friends supporting my idea's.

And that is why I love you Aussies.  Not to mention those Brits.  You two are some of bloody crazy!  But hell, I follow right in your footsteps.  LOL  I spend more time surfing Aussie car websites/forums than those based in the States.  Not to mention, I read your guys' news along with the BBC and such.  But you already knew that.  All the random news bits I post up about you Aussies.  LOL  And yes, I know a Brit really well out in Upstate New York.  We call him Crazy Andy or Mad Andy.  He has some crazy ideas but the finances, knowledge and connections to back it up.  Cant wait to work him some more.

Offline DatsmO

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« Reply #58 on: 09:26:32 AM / 12-Dec-08 »
im all for going with the VQ swap because of the originality. i was actually going to do that swap until i got an sr  i did alot of research on it and vq's are now not to expencive to buy and vq's have been done on some old 240z's im sure with some custom work and wiring from a g35 or somthing you could make it work. i was going to do the swap. hell ill even help you do the swap if your willing to try it. i want to see it done more than anyone.

Offline fyneyoungstunna

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« Reply #59 on: 01:56:29 PM / 29-Dec-08 »
damn   +12 for julie. she said it. just do it.

wiring wont be an issue, just talk to sterling real nice and rational like and im shure he can at least give you some pointers and turn you in the right direction.

motor mounts. once again not hard, just look at what it will take to mash the s12 mounts and whatever engine mounts you are gonna use together, and then strenghten them up. for something like this i would highly recommend staying away from the home made poly bushings, if your gonna do it do it right.

i keep saying look into the old z engines, plenty of power less wiring, and they  may be a bit long but im shure you can comp for that somehow.


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« Last Edit: 01:58:48 PM / 29-Dec-08 by fyneyoungstunna »
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