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Author Topic: Vq/vg Option Swaps Only  (Read 29872 times)

Offline Draconis

Vq/vg Option Swaps Only
« Reply #20 on: 12:21:50 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Couple of things.

I never saw myself as being 'called out'.  So no need to worry there.  I already explained my rational for why I did what I did.  My car was a SE and I felt like I was doing it unfair if I went to a 4 cylinder.  So I was stuck with a 6 cylinder.  I looked at the cost and the work involved and chose the RB partly due to that reason.  Other reasons was because it hadnt been done yet in the States, was about to be finished in Aus. and it held the RB factor.

The motor mounts, Arro is correct.  You dont just weld stuff up.  Actually for me, I didnt touch the motor mounts.  I made everything else work around the motor mounts.  I think everyone forgets that.

As far as engine management.  I dont see why it's that hard.  That's where you get into the basics of tuning.  I dont think the Z is as integrated as the R34 GTR and the R35 GTR is.  Just get a piggy back or standalone.  It still takes time and some basic knowledge or you'll eff up your motor.

Offline brewster240

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« Reply #21 on: 12:22:31 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: dirtymike1
Have you ever trid to do a timing eblt on a VQ motor while it's still in the car? Good luck with that.


timing belt on a vq in or out of the car is impossible. vq uses a timing chain.

Quote from: Arro
Just saying "it will fit" doesn't make it true. And even if there's physically enough space, there's a boatload of issues with making mounts work (people always think "oh I can just weld it" but it's nowhere near that simple), not to mention engine management as Henry put it.

The L28ET from a 280ZX turbo was put in an S13 and based on what I saw, I hope it's never put in another S-chassis again. It's tooooo long, and even though they made it fit, it hangs too far past the front wheels, and throws the car's balance off waaaay much, all for what, old tech?

Stick with the VG series engines, If you're talking about going this crazy, for less work you could have done a VG30DETT and YES, that one actually "fits" and has even been done already in an S12 (once, by Aussies).

l series fits the same as a rb. as far as front to back is concerned. side to side you would have more room.

intake and exhaust on the same side makes it a little tight, but its still much simpler.

Quote from: nismologist
whats wrong with me??dude why does everyone ask that.im not even trying to be rude or anything thats just how i talk.im straight forward and i dont take an inch of shit ever.you guys cant stand the heat,get out of the kitchen.i got money headed my way and im eager to get this all planned.so sorry if yall think im a dick..im not trying to be.i think im going to try the vg30de.maybe the dett,but god that would be a bitch to work on.its going to be a daily,so i want a fairly easy engine to work on.i dont want to turbo the vg30e cuz wouldnt i have to replace the pistons?that wouldnt be fun at all.vg33e is on the table too.god this is a head ache and a half.ive got a bankroll of 5k for now.but im waiting and waiting until something clicks and clicks hard in my head.the 33 is calling though.


why do you think you have to change the 30e pistons? there are many 300+hp vg30e-t running around on stock pistons.

vg33 wont be as cut and dry as you think. it uses a different crank, with a different pulley. you would either have to swap in the 30 crank, or figure out a different setup for you alt, p/s and a/c if you wanted to keep them.

Quote from: Sean1978
So much fluff like this thread on here all the time. This forum would be 1000 times better without the useless fantasy threads.
"Nismooligist"

I'll break this into suburban hip-hop speak for you.

Is you want to silence the "haters" I have a suggestion: Don't talk about it, be about it.

word is bond.

Offline nismologist

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« Reply #22 on: 12:24:33 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
ive got an ase tech backing me with 30+ years in the biz and 4 years at a nissan dealership.i think im good with any "fantasy" swap i chose.weve got the know how and definitely have the will.where should i look up info on the vg33??wiki?i coudnt keep all of it where it was on the vg33?i have to go see one for myself.measure it all up and everything.i just figured,it was an engine without a turbo,and turbo models have the turbo pistons with the indent in the top.
« Last Edit: 12:27:25 PM / 09-Dec-08 by nismologist »

YOU THOUGHT SO, BUT I KNOW SO.
-Macho Man Randy Savage

Offline brewster240

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« Reply #23 on: 12:24:57 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: Draconis


As far as engine management.  I dont see why it's that hard.  That's where you get into the basics of tuning.  I dont think the Z is as integrated as the R34 GTR and the R35 GTR is.  Just get a piggy back or standalone.  It still takes time and some basic knowledge or you'll eff up your motor.

yes it is.

the thing ive seen some do is use the harness/ecu from a vq30 maxima, but there are features on the 35 that the 30 wont work with, especially if you go with a rev up motor.


Offline Arro

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« Reply #24 on: 12:26:28 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: nismologist
what the fuck is that suppost to mean??you callin me ghetto or something??i appreciate the positive stuff,but i dont need any negativity.thats just ppl trying to bring me down.but waste your time if you feel the need.

I think he is basically sayin what I did, that lots of people talk big but do little... even I have been guilty of that in the past, although I try not to be.

Ok enough of the flaming... look, this is a discussion about swaps. Some of us feel one way, some of us feel another. We can discuss that, but it doesn't have anything to do with anyone personally... or SHOULDN'T, or I'll have to start bustin' heads.
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline nismologist

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« Reply #25 on: 12:28:31 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
didnt someone say something about a vg34??where the hell do i find one of those?

YOU THOUGHT SO, BUT I KNOW SO.
-Macho Man Randy Savage

Offline Arro

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« Reply #26 on: 12:29:34 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: Draconis
As far as engine management.  I dont see why it's that hard.  That's where you get into the basics of tuning.  I dont think the Z is as integrated as the R34 GTR and the R35 GTR is.  Just get a piggy back or standalone.  It still takes time and some basic knowledge or you'll eff up your motor.

Actually I would think it would be much harder, because the R34 is an older tech than the VQ (if that's the engine you're talking about), and because the R34 is a jap-spec engine, with less electronics. Unless you were to get a JDM VQ which now you're adding even more complication to the plan.

-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline Draconis

Vq/vg Option Swaps Only
« Reply #27 on: 12:30:54 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: brewster240
yes it is.

the thing ive seen some do is use the harness/ecu from a vq30 maxima, but there are features on the 35 that the 30 wont work with, especially if you go with a rev up motor.

That blows.  It seems that a lot of the new engines that are key players in the power game seem to be very well integrated into the car itself.  Man, that makes swapping and tuning one PITA.

Offline brewster240

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« Reply #28 on: 12:30:58 PM / 09-Dec-08 »

Offline Arro

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« Reply #29 on: 12:31:28 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: nismologist
didnt someone say something about a vg34??where the hell do i find one of those?

I think it was a typo, and he meant 33... or bored/stroked?
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline Draconis

Vq/vg Option Swaps Only
« Reply #30 on: 12:32:23 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: brewster240
timing belt on a vq in or out of the car is impossible. vq uses a timing chain.

LOL nice

Offline nismologist

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« Reply #31 on: 12:32:52 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
thanks for the pics brewster.haha thats how i feel right now.i wasnt aware that there is a vq30.whatd those come in??

YOU THOUGHT SO, BUT I KNOW SO.
-Macho Man Randy Savage

Offline brewster240

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« Reply #32 on: 12:33:24 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
vg34 was not a typo, thats why i typed it twice.


its a 33 bored out with 45 pistons.

there used to be a great article on one built for a pathfinder, but the site is down.

Offline Draconis

Vq/vg Option Swaps Only
« Reply #33 on: 12:34:02 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
That is quite an impressive collection of Fail Brewster.

Offline Arro

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« Reply #34 on: 12:34:11 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
I think I speak for everyone when I restate the following (and in a civil tone unlike some of you maroooons lol):

- Talk is cheap.

- Do what you're gonna do, instead of telling us you're gonna do it.

- Take lots of pics, whether you WIN or FAIL.

/thread
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline brewster240

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« Reply #35 on: 12:34:26 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
vq30 came in a lot of cars, maxima, i30, etc.

there were also jdm rwd versions, and a rwd vq30det.

Offline Julie

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« Reply #36 on: 12:34:45 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
there wouldnt be engine swaps if people didnt that the plunge and give it a try. if it works out, great... you just pioneered the VQ swap into an s12s. if u fail, so what. atleast u tried it and wasnt all talk. the info you gain from the failure will be useful for the next person who tries it and someone, somday, might succeed in pairing that motor into this chassis.

good luck if you attempt it



"like people, every car possesses a unique character, with its own DNA, talents, and idiosyncrasies. push it too hard and it'll turn on you, as a person would. if its worth anything, it gets more interesting the more you get to know it"

luck is earned through hard work and determination, not to mention the willingness to take risks and to see bad luck and setbacks as opportunities for growth and a new direction.

Offline brewster240

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« Reply #37 on: 12:36:09 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Quote from: Arro
I think I speak for everyone when I restate the following (and in a civil tone unlike some of you maroooons lol):

- Talk is cheap.

- Do what you're gonna do, instead of telling us you're gonna do it.

- Take lots of pics, whether you WIN or FAIL.

/thread

threads like this arent always completely bad.

aside from the sillyness there is knowledge being passed around which might not ever surface without talking about it.

why spend tons of money trying something without discussing and researching first?

Offline Arro

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« Reply #38 on: 12:38:09 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
Well, that depends on why the failure.. if it's because of lack of funds or knowhow, then it was doomed to fail from the start. I always try not to plan with what I call "virtual" funds for a project, meaning I don't have the budget to do it until the money is in my hands. I didn't even commit myself to a swap until I knew the money for the motorset was there.

Even then, buying an engine, yanking out your own, and things ending there, with the other engine collecting dust in the side of the garage, that's not failure from trying, that's just FAIL.

So yeah, it depends. If it CAN be done, I say DO IT, but if you're not really in a position to do so, save your duckets and do what you CAN do. That's all I'm really suggesting here.

And I'm not opposed to these threads, so long as we understand that it's just TALK until someone shells out the cash and blood/sweat/tears and makes it happen.

Right now, this is all internet engine swapping, not reality. Can it be reality? That's TBD.
« Last Edit: 12:39:30 PM / 09-Dec-08 by Arro »
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline Draconis

Vq/vg Option Swaps Only
« Reply #39 on: 12:38:28 PM / 09-Dec-08 »
AS for the integrated system, yes it can be done.  But honestly, I would def. have to stand with Arro on this one.  For the main collective of us on here, it would be a bit out of our league.  The wiring alone needs to be overhauled in the entire car.  I have only seen this once attempted.  S13 coupe with the current day Holden Manaro/Pontiac GTO.  They literally ripped the entire wiring harness out of the GTO and placed it into the S13.  All they did was modify the connections and lengths to make it fit and connect to the Nissan points.  It took a while but was well worth it.  That beast drove and sounded like nothing else.  So if you want to go that route, you may want to consider that type of electrical swap instead of trying to repin/modify the existing wiring harness to fit the stock S12 harness.  If done, I would give major props to that person.  I have done a bit but that's not something I would look forward too personally.