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Author Topic: S12 Engine Swap Guide  (Read 50190 times)

Offline IggyEGuana

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S12 Engine Swap Guide
« Reply #20 on: 02:16:34 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
great thread

I agree with your take on the CA18DET.  IMO the best value at the 200-230hp level.  The stock motor + T25G + FMIC + MBC will break 200whp.  I'm happy with my engine and how it performs.  The extra torque of the SR would be nice but if torque is your medicine then like you said a KA24DE-T is where its at.  In fact if I could do it all over again I would've done a KA built with a topmount.  Hindsight is so 20-20.

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Offline CamInHead

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« Reply #21 on: 02:27:36 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
I'm inclinded to agree too. Ca18DETs usually cost about half an SR20DET over here. Having said that, an 18ET could do stock 18DET power for not a lot of outlay.
« Last Edit: 02:29:33 PM / 09-Jun-09 by CamInHead »

Offline sideways_s12

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« Reply #22 on: 03:01:20 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
My next build is gonna be a ka-t the sr is overrated imo...a good motor but overrated and I love the ca-det after riding in Iggy's it's an awesome motor that most nissan guys don't look twice at because of the hype of the sr...

Offline seishuku

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« Reply #23 on: 04:04:57 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
Quote from: Arro
The SR bottom end is nothing remarkable. The bottom end on the CA18DET is different than the CA18ET. For one thing, the rods are thicker. Also, the bottom end is girdled. The SR rods are unremarkable, if only better than the single cam CA rods, and the bottom end is not girdled. The engine is better balanced from what I have read, which is partly responsible for its higher revs.

While the KA bottom end isn't girdled, the rods are a bit bigger. This taken from KA-t.org. Quite possibly, the CA18DET is beefier on the bottom than the KA24DE.
SR rods will hold just as much as a CA18DET, I know of people that run near 400BHP daily for YEARS with out issue.
Most of what you read of people blowing rods out the side are people that crank up the boost with out supporting mods. You get that with any series engine, you just don't see it as much with other engines because of their popularity.

CA18DET, KA24DE, and SR20 (DE or DET with the exception of a few oddball FWD US motors) all have girdles.

Also the KA has a half weighted crank, where as the CA18DET and SR (again, with exception for a few odd US motors) both have full weighted cranks, which helps a lot with balance and allows higher revs.
Matt W.
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Offline Redneck

S12 Engine Swap Guide
« Reply #24 on: 06:33:15 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
Yeah there is no way the ca18det is stronger than the sr20det bottom end. At the very least they are the same strength even though I still think that is giving the ca18det too much credit. Seishuku is also correct about the ka24's only having a half weighted crank.
FIrst my rims are horrible, than there ok when painted black , now my cars horrible, now my fenders are to much after i was told i couldnt do it.... Lol club s12 ftw.....  Only here have Ive been told they look like shit..... SOrry its not bone stock with crown vic rims running the stock vg making 130whp and looks generic like every other one. My car looks dope ive been told this a billion times on local forums....


Offline Arro

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« Reply #25 on: 06:39:42 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
Quote from: IggyEGuana
In fact if I could do it all over again I would've done a KA built with a topmount.  Hindsight is so 20-20.

Top mount is a bad idea; there's a negative pressure zone where you'd end up having it. The reason why some manufacturers use them is for packaging and cost, not for their efficiency. They see horrible airflow, and get soaked fast. Just thought you might want to know.

I appreciate your support tho of this thread
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline jeffwins24

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« Reply #26 on: 06:51:51 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
note i was always told max a CA could hold reliably was 300hp and SR was 350 or 400.

Moderator note: Edited to keep it on-topic.
« Last Edit: 07:50:19 PM / 09-Jun-09 by Arro »
VG30ET > 2JZ > RB > 1JZ> L28ET> 4g63t > 7m > 3gste > KA24DET > SR20DET > *

Offline Jsvob03

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« Reply #27 on: 07:18:38 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
I think the point here was to discuss the reasonable/practical engine swaps. Sure the VG30DE/TT isnt at all practical, but lots of people ask about it, and therefore it is pertinent.
« Last Edit: 07:51:07 PM / 09-Jun-09 by Arro »

Offline seishuku

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Offline Arro

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« Reply #29 on: 07:55:17 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
Quote from: Jsvob03
I think the point here was to discuss the reasonable/practical engine swaps. Sure the VG30DE/TT isnt at all practical, but lots of people ask about it, and therefore it is pertinent.

Yes, this is true, which is why I edited out questions about oddball engine choices. Those should be discussions with separate threads in the Exotic swap section. I appreciate the further information about girdles and such... I think when this thread has a few more details added, I'll edit/rewrite the original post on page 1 and let you guys see if you think the revision takes into account what we've discussed here. But all in all, we've done a GREAT thing, and should we develop this right, it will become a sticky. That way any time a lazy n00b asks a "vs." question, we can smack them around a bit and point them to this thread.



Quote from: seishuku
http://www.honeywell.com/sites/ts/tt/turbo...ts_VNTworks.htm

Greg (wankel monkey) on this forum (guy who also did my signature image) whipped this up, this should help Jeff understand VNT mechanics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc2awh0O0Bc

And that's the last thing that will be said about VNT's in THIS thread. Start a new one in Coffee Shop if you want to talk more about it, because until it's being actually done to an S12, the discussion of VNT's and the like will be kept to Lounge.
« Last Edit: 07:57:29 PM / 09-Jun-09 by Arro »
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline IggyEGuana

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« Reply #30 on: 10:28:22 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
Quote from: Arro
Top mount is a bad idea; there's a negative pressure zone where you'd end up having it. The reason why some manufacturers use them is for packaging and cost, not for their efficiency. They see horrible airflow, and get soaked fast. Just thought you might want to know.

I appreciate your support tho of this thread

lol top mount MANIFOLD not intercooler.  top mount ICs are retarted are shouldn't even be a consideration.  Especially on an S12 where theres no room for it.  Ya I'm talkin bout a manifold.  Top mount mani = turbo too big to fit on a bottom mount = HP happiness

anyways OT

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Offline Arro

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« Reply #31 on: 10:48:30 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
Quote from: IggyEGuana
lol top mount MANIFOLD not intercooler.  top mount ICs are retarted are shouldn't even be a consideration.  Especially on an S12 where theres no room for it.  Ya I'm talkin bout a manifold.  Top mount mani = turbo too big to fit on a bottom mount = HP happiness

anyways OT


Ahhhhhh why not this?




-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline Phisherman09

S12 Engine Swap Guide
« Reply #32 on: 10:51:23 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
First of all i really like this thread, swap 101 FTW!

I thought these facts may be useful:

I put down "normal" motorset prices:

ca18et:Free-300 dollars.
ca18det :$900-$1400
SR20DET: $1400-$2000
VG30E(T)$500
KA24(D)E: Free-500 Prices seem to vary on these the most, some guys pay 50, while some pay 500.
RB20:$900-$1500
RB25-$2000-$3000
« Last Edit: 04:18:25 PM / 21-Jun-09 by Arro »
-86 200sx hatch

Offline Arro

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« Reply #33 on: 10:53:00 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
When you have an S12 "C" trans, can't you just swap the bellhousings when switching to SR/KA, and keep the S12 trans and stock driveshafts?
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline Phisherman09

S12 Engine Swap Guide
« Reply #34 on: 11:02:43 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
Quote from: Arro
When you have an S12 "C" trans, can't you just swap the bellhousings when switching to SR/KA, and keep the S12 trans and stock driveshafts?
i believe so, i wasnt sure so i thought id let someone whos done it chime in on that.
-86 200sx hatch

Offline seishuku

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« Reply #35 on: 11:16:16 PM / 09-Jun-09 »
Sure can.
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Offline CamInHead

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« Reply #36 on: 05:15:33 AM / 10-Jun-09 »
Quote from: Arro
That way any time a lazy n00b asks a "vs." question, we can smack them around a bit and point them to this thread.


Oi!  

lol just kidding. Actually I have no plans to do a swap, I was curious where the KA sits in the Nissan heirachy in real terms.  

Offline Arro

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« Reply #37 on: 11:58:35 AM / 10-Jun-09 »
Well it was a good time for a *comprehensive* and FACTUAL thread on this matter to take place. Enough is now known about these engines in relation to the S12 that we can compile it all into one place.

The opinions about the discussion are nice, too... but only because the facts are RIGHT here. Any opinions from lazy people will be obvious because they will not have read the facts in the thread before commenting or asking questions.

Which makes it easier for us moderators to moderate, too

Along with that, we've been removing threads that we felt didn't contribute to the discussion. "I'm envious of your swap, dude!" is the kind of thing that gets removed, or discussion about engines not listed in the initial post, especially oddball engines. Again, this thread is being kept on-topic, and at some point soon, a re-write of the OP will get all the facts straight, with all the fair representation from the provided facts in this thread. So all your efforts will be brought into bear.
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline Arro

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« Reply #38 on: 05:07:57 PM / 21-Jun-09 »
I've revised the OP to include the facts about the SR, CA DOHC, and KA girdles, as well as the full-weight vs. half-weighted crankshaft differences.

I've also added thoughts on the "CA20ET" frankenstein motor, and revised some of the entries on the KA to mention region availability.

Finally, I've updated both the CA18DET and FJ sections to reflect the 100% S12-correct authenticity that both swaps provide.

Again, I appreciate all the FACTUAL and fair input that all of you who participated have provided here. The result is perhaps the FIRST and only sound overview of ALL the practical swaps, as well as a fair discussion of other popular swap topics, and a concise evaluation of the stock powerplants and how they relate to the swap options discussed.

I will sticky this thread, and it will stand as the bottom line in swap information. I will be updating it soon so that the first post will also have a FAQ style section. So either way you get what you need -- discussion content, or direct Q & A.
« Last Edit: 05:09:17 PM / 21-Jun-09 by Arro »
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline Arro

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« Reply #39 on: 05:32:56 PM / 21-Jun-09 »
Added information on transmissions pertaining to swap choices.

Added big titles to break up sections in the initial post.

Enjoy
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance