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Author Topic: Ca20de  (Read 14567 times)

Offline Johnny_boi

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Ca20de
« on: 06:48:28 PM / 17-Aug-09 »
i no you can put a ca18de or t head on a ca20e block. but what  about a ca18de head out of a pulsar. then i read that Mitsubishi 4G63 con-rods will work for stronger rods. it looks like this would be pretty cheap since you can get all the parts a the junk yard

so how hard would this be

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Offline Jay

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« Reply #1 on: 08:23:03 PM / 17-Aug-09 »
It all require a small fortune in machining.

It's not by any means cheap

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Offline JonB

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Ca20de
« Reply #2 on: 08:34:35 PM / 17-Aug-09 »
Alotta machine work. Like narrowing the rods two tenths or somthing. The what pistons.. I don't think the 4G63 had anywhere near the same deck height. Custom Honda pistons or somthing-pin machining.

I looked at it a while back.

Let us know what you find.

Offline Johnny_boi

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« Reply #3 on: 10:48:56 PM / 17-Aug-09 »
this what i have come up with, from doing a little research



 CA20DE/CA20DET/CA20T/CA20ET
There was never a factory-produced twin-cam CA 2.0L motor, nor a turbo version. However the blocks are similar, and it is possible to fit the DOHC CA18DE/T twincam head to the SOHC CA20 block. However the DOHC/SOHC manifolds are different and the timing pulley/belts are not compatible. Despite this, CA20DET turbos have been built. The cheaper alternative to a CA20DET is a newer SR20DET, which will cost you a lot less in the long run, considering it is a newer engine. Parts for the SR20 are cheaper and more readily available.

This is no easy task, however. The rods of the normally aspirated CA20 series of motors are not up to the task, and many tuners use modified Mitsubishi 4G63 con-rods in this application. With a larger bore than the CA18, custom, flat topped and forged pistons are a must if boost is to be reliable. The CA20 also did not include the crank girdle support which vastly increased the harmonic resistance of the CA18. But the crank girdle from a CA18DET block will fit the CA20 main caps. The CA20 also did not include the under piston oil squirters of the CA18, but like the crank girdle, oil squirters from a CA18DET block can be fitted to the CA20 block.

Tomei and JUN of Japan produced 2 litre stoker kits for the CA18. If you search around the internet you are able to find these parts but they will not come without an expensive price tag. There is also a company called Norris Designs that produces a CA20 stroker kit as well as a CA20 engine.

The Gazelle MotorSport - BIG BLOCK CA

Motor:
CA20DET: Standard S12 CA20E block + CA18DET head
Internals: All new ACL pistons (not forged), rings, gaskets, bearings & seals. Stock rods shot peened.
Turbo: Lancer EVO III TD05H-16G
ECU: Power FC with Datalogit FC Edit
Boost Control: Apexi AVC-R
Cam Profiles: CA16DE 248deg - 8.5mm
Injectors: Trust 550cc/min
Bore & Stroke: 85.55mm x 88mm

Driveline:
Clutch: Exedy 5 Puck
Differential: H190 (Torsen LSD) 3.9:1
Front Suspension: HSD HR 7kg Coilovers (15 step damper)
Rear Suspension: King Springs & HSD HR Seperated Coilovers (15 step damper)
Front Brakes: R33 GTST 4 pot calipers & EBC Yellow Stuff pads
Rear Brakes: Bluebird TRX S3 with EBC Red Stuff
Front Wheels: Keiichi Tsuchiya 16x8" +35 with Bridgestone RE55S 225/50/16 tyres
Rear Wheels: Enkie Racing 16x8" +32 with Bridgestone RE55S 225/50/16 tyres

The figures that matter:
Current Power (@ wheels): 269hp (200.7kw) @ 6000rpm
Current Torque (@ wheels): 359.5nm (36.66kg/m) @ 4352rpm
Current Boost: 1.034bar (15psi)
Rev Limit: 7000rpm

Latest dyno sheet:
« Last Edit: 10:49:26 PM / 17-Aug-09 by Johnny_boi »

Offline Jay

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Ca20de
« Reply #4 on: 12:25:51 AM / 18-Aug-09 »
If i'm spending that much on a motor, there is no way in hell I'd be using the stock CA20E rods. They're just. Thin... I have small fingers, and my pointer has more meat than the CA20 rod

Example. My old 84 CA20E rod on the right. my Mazda F2T Rod on the left.




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« Last Edit: 12:31:31 AM / 18-Aug-09 by Jay »

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Offline Johnny_boi

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« Reply #5 on: 12:38:40 AM / 18-Aug-09 »
lol i know that the ca20e rods f-ing suck. it looks like all junk yard parts. excepted the timming belt. the guy who has done it said it was pretty cheap

Offline 200sxkitcar

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Ca20de
« Reply #6 on: 01:34:52 AM / 18-Aug-09 »
you'd have to run Pulsar engine management.

The custom machined part would be the crank sprocket, wouldn't define that as cheap necessarily.

I've looked into this but a standard swap sourcing everthing from a junkyard is not only cheaper but will make more power and be more reliable.  (as in KA or even SR)
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Offline Johnny_boi

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« Reply #7 on: 01:55:49 AM / 18-Aug-09 »
i was just thinking why no one does it. you answered that. maybe someone should make a kit for this.... what about a ca18et head on a ca20e block. of course you would have to get stronger rods(that's a given) does this make more power? which head breathes better? im just playing around with ideas

Offline 200sxkitcar

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Ca20de
« Reply #8 on: 10:37:22 PM / 20-Aug-09 »
the heads between the ca20e and ca18et are the same, only slight cam differences.

the cost of a retrofit kit would be likely more than a standard swap, and you'd still be left with the lighter duty internals of a stock ca20.  Internals could be upgraded, but again, you are beyond the cost of a more potent /higher potential swap then.
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Offline nismologist

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« Reply #9 on: 10:40:30 PM / 20-Aug-09 »
what about using sr20 head?

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Offline seishuku

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« Reply #10 on: 04:41:45 PM / 21-Aug-09 »
Not even a close match.
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Offline Johnny_boi

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« Reply #11 on: 04:54:36 PM / 21-Aug-09 »
Quote from: nismologist
what about using sr20 head?


one run off a chain(sr20) and the other is belt driven(all ca motors) so that reason alone is why that cant work
« Last Edit: 07:48:59 AM / 22-Aug-09 by Johnny_boi »

Offline brewster240

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« Reply #12 on: 09:14:18 PM / 21-Aug-09 »
if it was cheap or easy or worked good there would be a ton of them running around.

Offline Johnny_boi

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« Reply #13 on: 07:50:40 AM / 22-Aug-09 »
thinking out side the box is a good thing, where would we be with out it?

Offline brewster240

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« Reply #14 on: 12:39:34 PM / 22-Aug-09 »
the thing is, the ca has been around over 20 years, theres not much left outside the box that someone else hasnt thought of already.

by the time you're done dicking around with all this stuff,you could have just put in a ka-t or ca18det with upped boost and driving your car instead of trying to waste time with parts.


Offline Candellan

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« Reply #15 on: 03:44:44 PM / 14-Nov-09 »
I have done the CA20DET. It's cost a fair bit but it's a fun motor, very responsive. Those rods aren't as weak as they look if you shot peen them as I'm making 200rwkw with the original 350,000+km rods. We've worked out you can build a forged CA20 motor using 4G63 2.3L stroker pistons, 4G63 rods & the original CA20 crank, though some have suggested using the rare CD20 diesel crank, but I haven't got any specs on it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_CD_engine
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Offline Johnny_boi

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« Reply #16 on: 08:15:20 AM / 15-Nov-09 »
how much does it cost to have them shot peened

Offline aux

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« Reply #17 on: 11:42:30 PM / 27-Jul-10 »
Quote from: Jay
If i'm spending that much on a motor, there is no way in hell I'd be using the stock CA20E rods. They're just. Thin... I have small fingers, and my pointer has more meat than the CA20 rod

Example. My old 84 CA20E rod on the right. my Mazda F2T Rod on the left.

Personal opinion

just curious how you bent that rod, usually bending results from severe detonation or a bad tune + high rpm (no offense). what happened, and in what application?
« Last Edit: 11:47:10 PM / 27-Jul-10 by aux »
originally quoted by baller status:
DONT: do intake, header, exhaust (you'll be disappointed) and then modify the fuel and ignition system (will get you nowhere at this point).
DO: raise compression (pistons) and upgrade the cam. Then do the things I told you not to.

Offline IggyEGuana

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« Reply #18 on: 12:57:22 AM / 28-Jul-10 »
imo dont bother buildin a franken-motor.  too many hassles and even after its runnin u will be worried bout its reliability all the time.  if ur deeply in love with dohc CAs (like me) then either get a proper ca18det or get the cheaper NA RWD ca18de and build some sweet long tube, equal length headers for it.  Or if u really want 2.0 NA then swap in a sr20de.  its pretty kickass for a NA 4 banger.  Or just toss in a KA.  cheap and no shortage of torque.

btw jay that bent rod is dope. ur my hero. oh and ca18et rods are the same as ca20e rods. just a lil shorter. which helps a lil with strength i guess. not so matchstick-like.  still pretty thin though

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Offline Jay

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Ca20de
« Reply #19 on: 01:11:51 AM / 28-Jul-10 »
Quote from: aux
just curious how you bent that rod, usually bending results from severe detonation or a bad tune + high rpm (no offense). what happened, and in what application?

CA20E. Hydrolocked, sucked water in the motor at about 800 rpm. The picture is purely for rod size comparison purposes. So no offense taken

If you like that bent rod iggy, You'd LOVE my probes tranny with a gaping hole in the side of it.
What's especially impressive about the tranny, I was doing 1mph, moving forward in line for a car wash......


« Last Edit: 02:49:18 AM / 28-Jul-10 by Jay »

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