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Author Topic: Probably Doing A Swap, Got A Couple Questions  (Read 8295 times)

Offline phantommaggot

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Probably Doing A Swap, Got A Couple Questions
« on: 01:13:48 PM / 17-Jul-10 »
so,
after selling my last s12 and my mr2 its time for another car.

i really want another mr2 but i cant come across exactly what im looking for.
that said my friend has a blown turbo s12 that has sat for the past 2 years while he was in the air force. did i mention he got an evo... so since he has no use for his s12 anymore he donated it to my cause.

since the motor is blown im pretty sure im gonna swap it for something better instead of trying to source another ca18et. and since im a do it right type person im wanting a quality build.

in a couple weeks were gonna strip the car down and start on it. and ill have some money in late october/early november to get a motor and whatnot.

since i want a quality build im gonna want to put s13 coils on the front, which requires parts to be swapped in.

as ive read in the thread above the ca18det will bolt to the tranny thats already in the car.

Q1:  whats the differences between the 2 trannys (considering i get a s13 180sx tranny) what are the reasons for using one over the other?

Q2:  a motor set is somewhere between 1200 and 1400 shipped, im sure a clip is alot more, would it be worth it to get a clip and use the s13 suspension parts on it, or to source them from a junkyard (i know where a freshly rolled s13 vert is right now lol) i also know that 180sx front ends arent in as high demand as a normal silvia so selling the front end parts wouldnt get me much extra cash.

Q3:  ive read using the factory tach is an issue. and since im going for a decent build here id like to either have the factory dash work or use something different. i was wondering if a s13 digital cluster (the one with the tach in the middle and digital readout on the side) would work with both the car and the swap. since it is an s13 peice.

my buddy will be back in 2 weeks and were gonna try to haul the car somewhere we can get the engine bay and interior all cleaned out. my grandfather has a lift in his new garage so ill be using it if i can.

also.
whats a good source for a quality (everything included and good engine condition) engine set.

i was originally wanting to use tigerjapanese but they are in canada... so im sure there would be customs fees and whatnot added to shipping to virginia.

thanks for any quality answers and tips.

-j

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87 aw11, with a 20v. sold :(
84 s12, nothing yet.. sold....

Offline sam31183

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« Reply #1 on: 02:56:08 PM / 17-Jul-10 »
hey, I deleted your double topics for you so you only have one. I am going to see now if i can answer some of your questions...

Q1:  whats the differences between the 2 trannys (considering i get a  s13 180sx tranny) what are the reasons for using one over the other?

A1: The s13 transmission has less slop in it, and its newer, it also came attached to an engine with higher horsepower, so it is stronger. downsides include having to notch out the transmission tunnel to make room for the shifter as it comes back further, having to mod the tranny mount for mk1 tranny holes...this is simple though as it just means ovaling out the holes really.

Q2:   a motor set is somewhere between 1200 and 1400 shipped, im sure a clip  is alot more, would it be worth it to get a clip and use the s13  suspension parts on it, or to source them from a junkyard (i know where a  freshly rolled s13 vert is right now lol) i also know that 180sx front  ends arent in as high demand as a normal silvia so selling the front end  parts wouldnt get me much extra cash.

A2: If you can get your parts from the junkyard for the front suspension conversion and they arent all tweaked that would prolly be the cheaper way to go. A front clip is nicer to have doing the swap as you can inspect things in the engine bay, and grab everything out yourself. But then afterwards you either need to scrap the front clip or try to sell it...also shipping a front clip is more difficult...from a financial stand point an engine set will most likely be the way to go.

Q3:  ive read using the  factory tach is an issue. and since im going for a decent build here id  like to either have the factory dash work or use something different. i  was wondering if a s13 digital cluster (the one with the tach in the  middle and digital readout on the side) would work with both the car and  the swap. since it is an s13 peice.

A3: you can make the factory tach work with some diodes, you just have to know what your doing...it would be less work than installing an s13 dash, or installing an s13 gauge cluster into an s12 dash....which would look funky.

Dave Coleman for President of Earth!!!!
Build Thread Hatch CA18DET Eventually a Track Whore
Build Thread Notch KA24DE Daily Driver

Quote from: Kustamogen
  haha me modding would be a disaster.....Id get all power hungry and  demand n00dz from everyone. Then make all the canadian s12er's come here  and massage my feet and make me jello pudding.

Actually....mod powers plz?!?!?!  0:)

Tedious?  This coming from a person who uses the word twice in a sentence?  I laughed repeatedly...


Offline phantommaggot

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« Reply #2 on: 05:17:29 PM / 17-Jul-10 »
thanks man, didnt realize i double posted.

id love to find a clip. but if cost wasnt an issue id be building something else...

i probably will end up going with a motor set. it would be even better if i could find one closer to me as well instead of having to ship it from california.

i might try JGY customs, they arent far from me actually... but some friends of mine have dealt with them and were never happy.
plus they want 1500 for a motor set.... i would almost pay that for it if i knew EVERYTHING was there and the motor was in PERFECT health.

as far as the console, if it isnt a terrible hassle to get the original cluster to work then id rather do that. but how reliable is that mod? (plus i really love how the s13 digital cluster looks, but it probably wouldnt fit the s12 dash at all

Q1:  after putting in the s13 tranny will i be able to put the center console piece back in?

Q2:  can i assume 240sx short shifters will work, or will i need one for the ca18det tranny

Q3:  what about clutch/flywheel, what will i need there?

otherwise im pretty sure im good.

get the car apart, cleaned up, get the sound dampening out and what of the interior needs to come out. get as much out of the engine bay as possible (i want a shaved bay when im completely done)

after that its just paint the bay and get a motor in.
(ill probably paint the bay satin white, and the rest of the car blitz black (lol, john deere color)

i think i got the motor install down after reading the forums. so hopefully in a couple weeks ill have some pics of progress.

thanks
-j
87 aw11, with a 20v. sold :(
84 s12, nothing yet.. sold....

Offline sam31183

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« Reply #3 on: 06:02:01 PM / 17-Jul-10 »
you double posted again! lol...ok...lets try to answer some questions!

Q1: after putting in the s13 tranny will i be able to put the center console piece back in?

you can mod the center console so it fits further back...but then you get a gap between the radio bezel area and the console.

Q2: can i assume 240sx short shifters will work, or will i need one for the ca18det tranny

Correct.

Q3: what about clutch/flywheel, what will i need there?
Your engine set should come with a flywheel/clutch...you can get aftermarket ca18det clutches...not sure about flywheels, but you can just re surface the flywheel....

Dave Coleman for President of Earth!!!!
Build Thread Hatch CA18DET Eventually a Track Whore
Build Thread Notch KA24DE Daily Driver

Quote from: Kustamogen
  haha me modding would be a disaster.....Id get all power hungry and  demand n00dz from everyone. Then make all the canadian s12er's come here  and massage my feet and make me jello pudding.

Actually....mod powers plz?!?!?!  0:)

Tedious?  This coming from a person who uses the word twice in a sentence?  I laughed repeatedly...


Offline phantommaggot

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« Reply #4 on: 06:40:57 PM / 17-Jul-10 »
IDK why im double posting... wierd.. im just clicking the button down there.... VVV

as far as the flywheel and clutch.. if i have the motor out i may as well do those before it goes in and i start beating on it. and id like aftermarket both if at all possible. ill have to spend some time lookin...

2 more things..

will i have to mod the A/C to get it hooked back up? lol i cant stand the heat so ill keep my a/c if its at all possible.. tho i may try to hide the lines some how.. have to look at that when i get the motor out i guess.

and

Will i need a different radiator to keep the motor cool. im gonna put it in basically stock at first. but after i get another stock of car money im gonna mod the motor up a little (probably tune the motor up to take a gt28rs at a good amount of boost, or maybe if i can afford it ill get a different turbo and a top mount mani with external wastegate.)

edit:
shit forgot one...

when i go get a front driveshaft half, does it matter if the 240 is manual or auto?
« Last Edit: 06:44:06 PM / 17-Jul-10 by phantommaggot »
87 aw11, with a 20v. sold :(
84 s12, nothing yet.. sold....

Offline gerrybg

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« Reply #5 on: 07:19:08 PM / 17-Jul-10 »
Needs to be manual, the splines are different.

Keith (forum name) knows whats involved with the aircon pm him

Offline IggyEGuana

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« Reply #6 on: 07:26:16 PM / 17-Jul-10 »
all ur questions have already been answered multiple times.  read all the stickies, search, and browse this section and other members' build threads who have swapped. like mine, link in sig.  do the same on nico.  they have a great CA section there with some real CA old timers who know their shit.

upside of using the s13 trans is it sits the shifter closer to you.  way better.  other then that the 2 two trans are the same.  s13 tail is just longer.  main case is the same.  the shit they used to hold the shifter in is a lil different s12 vs s13.  s13 better? idk.  mayb just cheaper to make.  240sx short shifter works great in the s13 trans though.  not so much in the s12 trans cuz of the different seat shit.  for that u have to use the type that replaces the whole top plate like the B&M. $$$

say no to tiger japanese or anyone out of canada.  whats the one out of georgia? anyone know off hand?  they are good by word of mouth but i'm not a customer of theirs so i cant say by experience.

clip vs motor set.  first any used motor runs the risk of being fucked off and blown.  supposedly compression checked or not.  when findin it u have to be sure the motor set is complete. at least as complete as u need it to be.  talk to them on the phone.  if they can't speak english worth a shit then walk away from them.  and keep in mind that even clips are not always complete.  I would get the suspesion stuff from the junkyard anyways.  that way you can see the whole car and inspect the condition of all the parts u want.  clip could come over with bent LCA or some shit like that.  or rust.  whatever u do dont buy the cheapest motor set ebay has to offer.  u will be hunting down all the missing and broken parts for a couple years.

getting the tach to work with the dohc ca is easy.  isnt that thread a sticky?  sam?  it should be.  4 diodes that come together to one signal.  a few bucks in parts from radioshack and a lil soldering.  too easy. search it on google even

there are ca18det clutch and flywheel kits available now right here in the US.  before that u had to hunt ur shit down from AUS or yahoo japan auctions.  or.. fidanza alum flywheel for rwd sr20det + any SR clutch kit u fancy + hatless S12 gear reduction starter = boosh! u got it.  i'm rockin the SR fidanza with an ebay stage 4.5 clutch and the gear reduction s12 starter.  drifting the balls off the car for about 2 years now no problems.  and the s12 u have might already have the correct starter.  mine didnt but it wasnt too hard to hunt one down from another c-s12 member.  u could actually just buy a remaned or mayb even new one from a parts store.  prob a special order not in stock but they can get it.

i love that u wanna paint the bay white cuz everything pops so much more and it looks better but dont do satin for the engine bay.  needs to be high gloss.  the tough shit.  satin paint is porous.  unless u wanna repaint the bay every year or two. then go for the show look

AC compressor will bolt right up using the s12 bracket.  mayb even the s13 bracket.  either way it bolts up.

stock s12 rad is a touchy subject for some.  i am using the original may of 85 rad that came in my car.  and i live in las vegas.  and my car runs nice and cool.  but thats with dual electric fans that come on at 180 and i have a 180 t-stat.  some people cant even get their ca20s to stop running hot on the stock rad.  luck? idk.

GL
« Last Edit: 07:30:11 PM / 17-Jul-10 by IggyEGuana »

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Quote from: Arro
you sir are emblazoned with win.

Offline sam31183

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« Reply #7 on: 08:02:24 PM / 17-Jul-10 »
the tach thread is stickied...some of the 18det stuff i am a bit rusty on as i havent lived it in awhile. He has the b transmission right now...imho it is way different from the s13 transmission in every aspect. The s12 C tranny has more in common with it though. I read on northwest nissans awhile back that some kid with an s13 put a s12 radiator into his s13 because he thought it would cool more...i was like...wha?!?! At any rate, iggy is doing awesome with is stock rad still and he lives on the sun...so there you go!

Dave Coleman for President of Earth!!!!
Build Thread Hatch CA18DET Eventually a Track Whore
Build Thread Notch KA24DE Daily Driver

Quote from: Kustamogen
  haha me modding would be a disaster.....Id get all power hungry and  demand n00dz from everyone. Then make all the canadian s12er's come here  and massage my feet and make me jello pudding.

Actually....mod powers plz?!?!?!  0:)

Tedious?  This coming from a person who uses the word twice in a sentence?  I laughed repeatedly...


Offline phantommaggot

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« Reply #8 on: 08:08:32 PM / 17-Jul-10 »
Thanks both of you, that was all super helpful.
ill try to search that place in GA, if theres more than one i could be boned lol.
if you think of it feel free to inform me.


id spend more time searching, but most of my time is spent working, looking for work, watching my 4 month old, or out and about.
most of these posts were made from my phone (maybe why i double posted) and i dont exatly have a smart phone, i have a oddball shitty mobile phone browser and it displays things very poorly. plus it takes alot of time.

tach diode setup is a sticky, i read it, and understood how it worked. that said, if im gonna mod something why not go all the way, so i asked. thinking if someone had tried to put the s13 digi cluster in i could get some input. but since it is rounded and most likely wider ill probably just go with the 4 diodes and keep the stock cluster.. or build one from aftermarket gauges
(btw im talking about this cluster http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images...00004_large.jpg )

im going for a motor show n go with the car.

outside will most likely be blitz black with gloss black lip, skirts, and zg flares
idk on wheels yet, dont know what ill do with brakes and if it would get 5 lug or not, but they will be some ridiculous color like bright green or bright light pink

under the hood im gonna do my best to keep it super simple and clean.
paint it white, maybe have a friend do some graffiti in it. idk yet. and then try my best to keep it shaved while keeping the car functional.
use something cool for a rad bottole, and something cool for a catch can. maybe powdercoat or paint the powersteering res. yada yada.
87 aw11, with a 20v. sold :(
84 s12, nothing yet.. sold....

Offline Keith

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« Reply #9 on: 05:50:00 AM / 18-Jul-10 »
What year s12?  If it's an '84, you'll have to get creative with the ac like I did.  '84 s12's used a different compressor than '85-'88, plus it has a v belt pulley instead of ribbed pulleys like the s13 ca18det as well as '85-'88 s12's  
You'll have to source a vg30 s12 pulley/ clutch, which fits the '84 s12 compressor, and is a ribbed style pulley.  You just have to use a 3 ribbed belt, because the pulley doesn't quite line up perfectly with the crank pulley or tensioner pulley, so you have to use a narrower belt to compensate.  No big deal though



*1984 S12 Turbo* CA18DET swap * Custom top mount header & dump pipe * Mitsu Heavy Industries EVO III 16g turbo * Custom 3" turbo back exhaust with Magnaflow muffler * Front mount intercooler * Front mount oil cooler * Nismo fuel pressure regulator * Walbro 255 * DSM 450cc Injestors * Apexi Safc II * AEM Wide Band * AEM Tru Boost * Z32 MAF * Cometic head gasket * Centerforce Dual Friction clutch *  Tokico lowering springs * Owned since 1989 *

*2007 BMW M6* S85 V10 sweetness

*2004 C5 Z06*

*2006 BMW E60 550i Sport* Boner stock; SOLD *

*1995 Maxima* Owned since 1995 SOLD

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Offline phantommaggot

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« Reply #10 on: 09:08:04 AM / 18-Jul-10 »
Quote from: Keith
What year s12?  If it's an '84, you'll have to get creative with the ac like I did.  '84 s12's used a different compressor than '85-'88, plus it has a v belt pulley instead of ribbed pulleys like the s13 ca18det as well as '85-'88 s12's  
You'll have to source a vg30 s12 pulley/ clutch, which fits the '84 s12 compressor, and is a ribbed style pulley.  You just have to use a 3 ribbed belt, because the pulley doesn't quite line up perfectly with the crank pulley or tensioner pulley, so you have to use a narrower belt to compensate.  No big deal though

so let me tell you a funny story about my last s12...
it was an 84 SRA car.. and the previous owner told me that the guy that had it before him went nuts on the wiring harness and re wired it with (what ill assume is a mk2) different harness.

so the alternator goes out. i went to autozone and ordered an alternator for an 84... didnt work. it had a v belt pulley but the plug was completely wrong. i was so pissed, like WTF. so i ordered another one thinking that i had got the worng one. nope same thing.

i thought back and looked at the old alternator. there wasnt a part number or anything on it. so my buddy that worked at autozone and i hopped on their computer and started looking at connecters for cars that were of a similar year.. ended up ordering a z31 (i believe thats what it was) alternator and having to swap the pulley.

swapping the pulley was a job in its self cus the v-belt pulley was 2 peices with a Huge hole in the middle and the shaft on the new alt was super skinny. so i just got an impact wrench and ran the nut on and off till i could spin the pulley and not see any wobble. so a 30 min alt job took a whole week lol (ordering and waiting for alternators included).
« Last Edit: 10:34:31 AM / 18-Jul-10 by phantommaggot »
87 aw11, with a 20v. sold :(
84 s12, nothing yet.. sold....

Offline phantommaggot

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« Reply #11 on: 10:44:38 PM / 21-Jul-10 »
took some pics of the car today.
we were bored so we just started taking stuff off of the motor lol
of course no sooner than we started we got rained on.. so not much happened.















only rust i saw on the outside of the car.
87 aw11, with a 20v. sold :(
84 s12, nothing yet.. sold....

Offline Keith

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« Reply #12 on: 10:57:14 PM / 21-Jul-10 »
Hey we have matching roofs  



*1984 S12 Turbo* CA18DET swap * Custom top mount header & dump pipe * Mitsu Heavy Industries EVO III 16g turbo * Custom 3" turbo back exhaust with Magnaflow muffler * Front mount intercooler * Front mount oil cooler * Nismo fuel pressure regulator * Walbro 255 * DSM 450cc Injestors * Apexi Safc II * AEM Wide Band * AEM Tru Boost * Z32 MAF * Cometic head gasket * Centerforce Dual Friction clutch *  Tokico lowering springs * Owned since 1989 *

*2007 BMW M6* S85 V10 sweetness

*2004 C5 Z06*

*2006 BMW E60 550i Sport* Boner stock; SOLD *

*1995 Maxima* Owned since 1995 SOLD

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Offline IggyEGuana

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« Reply #13 on: 11:11:04 PM / 21-Jul-10 »
great body. preserve that hood above all

be careful what u chuck.  everything should be saved until the new motor is in and running with no problems at all. 100%

off the top of my head u need to save the oil pressure sending unit and its block fitting.  its on the side of the block near the oil pan kinda below the oil filter.  the wiring for it needs to be saved as well obviously.  that whole passenger side engine harness aka "lower harness" needs to be saved.  only thing on it you'll change is the alt plug. cut and solder or just de-pin and re-pin

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Offline phantommaggot

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« Reply #14 on: 06:29:22 AM / 22-Jul-10 »
Quote from: Keith
Hey we have matching roofs
lol, faded clear is SEXY!

Quote from: IggyEGuana
great body. preserve that hood above all

be careful what u chuck.  everything should be saved until the new motor is in and running with no problems at all. 100%

off the top of my head u need to save the oil pressure sending unit and its block fitting.  its on the side of the block near the oil pan kinda below the oil filter.  the wiring for it needs to be saved as well obviously.  that whole passenger side engine harness aka "lower harness" needs to be saved.  only thing on it you'll change is the alt plug. cut and solder or just de-pin and re-pin

Thanks Iggy,
all i got around to pulling was the IDLE stuff and the stupid octopus. (the distributor looks brand new tho)
since i cant get to a garage just yet im gonna try to do as much simple stuff to the car where it is. mostly free up the motor and clean as much shit from inside and off the outside as i can.
yesterday i realy wanted to get the turbo/manifold mass o'shit outta the way but i got rained on instead lol.
so i took the broken t25 that was in the trunk and started taking it apart.
sad thing is the turbo is in SUPER condition but the wastegate actuator arm is broken lol.

hopefully ill go back up there today, then i cant do anything with it for about a week.


87 aw11, with a 20v. sold :(
84 s12, nothing yet.. sold....

Offline IggyEGuana

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« Reply #15 on: 07:10:12 PM / 22-Jul-10 »
some peeps might want to buy some of that single slammer stuff.  the dizzy for sure.

what exactly is wrong with the turbo? pics would be great

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Offline phantommaggot

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« Reply #16 on: 11:20:27 AM / 23-Jul-10 »
Quote from: IggyEGuana
some peeps might want to buy some of that single slammer stuff.  the dizzy for sure.

what exactly is wrong with the turbo? pics would be great

ya, ill be trying to sell anything i can once i get a stack of parts and can make a decent thread.

that t25...
the wastegate actuator arm is broken. other wise.. i took the exhaust housing off of it last night and there is NO play in it at all. just sounds like theres rust under the exhaust wheel/fins/ whatever its called.

i think since i have the exhaust housing off im gonna weld the wastegate flapper shut and top mount that t25 untill i can afford something ... bigger/better unno.

so.. as soon as i can find a way to get the HUGE fuckin snap ring out of the compressor side ill take it apart and clean it. yada yada

i kind of have a vision of what i want.
clean bay, top mount s15 t28 (or similar), intercooler mounted where your(iggys) charge pipe is and vented through the hood. 'short intake pipe off the turbo to AFM/MAF (whatever) to a TMtuning max flow air filter (if it will work) ya lol
« Last Edit: 07:58:12 PM / 23-Jul-10 by phantommaggot »
87 aw11, with a 20v. sold :(
84 s12, nothing yet.. sold....

Offline phantommaggot

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« Reply #17 on: 07:36:12 PM / 07-Aug-10 »
did some work to the car today, yesterday, and the day before

got 2.5 or so year old trash out of the car
 
pulled the rear carpet - pressure washed it

realized that we had started taking the sound dampening out a couple years ago before it was parked. (cool)

pulled the rear seat top sections
-cut the rings
-pulled the covers, foam, metal apart
-pressure washed seat covers
-seat covers are soaking ind a tub of black rit dye... (its not working to well tho....)
-primed and painted the metal seat peices ( the side against the foam is flat black, the side you can see when the carpet is out is like RE amemiya blue, maybe lighter)
-got rear/front carpet from storage (it was stinky) removed insulation and pressure washed it. (its still stinky, hopefully some fresh air and some smelly good chemicals will help it out.)
-took off the broken seat fold latches, cut them off, drilled them, and will be putting zip ties in as pull tabs.
-painted the rusty latch mech flat black

hopefully after sitting in the dye all night the grey checkerboard hippie interior cloth will be black. if not ill get some vinyl dye and try hitting the vinyl part with that. (i plan to have the back seat re done eventually anyways.... in a cheap black fabric)

i had a couple questions... but i cant for the life of me remember what they were lol...

after getting the seats all back together tomorrow im hoping i can start on getting the back plastics out and the rest of the rear sound dampening. i think id like to paint the back half of the inside that blue color (in case i decide to dump the carpet.

anyways, pics are on the way, got to get them from tommys phone and on to my photobucket

-j
87 aw11, with a 20v. sold :(
84 s12, nothing yet.. sold....

Offline phantommaggot

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Probably Doing A Swap, Got A Couple Questions
« Reply #18 on: 07:49:06 PM / 07-Aug-10 »
O ya

heres pics of that turbo.









Annnnd...... the broken waste gate actuator

87 aw11, with a 20v. sold :(
84 s12, nothing yet.. sold....

Offline Keith

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    • http://www.cardomain.com/id/1984rps12
Probably Doing A Swap, Got A Couple Questions
« Reply #19 on: 11:16:48 PM / 07-Aug-10 »
nice nut-sac



*1984 S12 Turbo* CA18DET swap * Custom top mount header & dump pipe * Mitsu Heavy Industries EVO III 16g turbo * Custom 3" turbo back exhaust with Magnaflow muffler * Front mount intercooler * Front mount oil cooler * Nismo fuel pressure regulator * Walbro 255 * DSM 450cc Injestors * Apexi Safc II * AEM Wide Band * AEM Tru Boost * Z32 MAF * Cometic head gasket * Centerforce Dual Friction clutch *  Tokico lowering springs * Owned since 1989 *

*2007 BMW M6* S85 V10 sweetness

*2004 C5 Z06*

*2006 BMW E60 550i Sport* Boner stock; SOLD *

*1995 Maxima* Owned since 1995 SOLD

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