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Author Topic: FJ vs. KA  (Read 9609 times)

Offline VEGIE

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #20 on: 04:04:11 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
Quote
It always makes me laugh when no one understands a god damn thing and turns it into a showcase of their own "supposed" egotistical knowledge.

if your whole point is trying to say that a KA would be a more logical/practical choice for the same end result because they are easy to do,

then i reckon it about as practical as painting a house with a toothbrush just because you can buy a toothbrush anywhere. achieves the same end result after all...

i you want to be joe average driving the same everyday junk as everyone else, good luck to you.

i think its awesome that someone is going to the effort of building a car that "breaks the mould" in a market like the US where it would be far harder to do.

go Arro

as for supposed knowledge? ive owned more FJ's than your ever likely to see in the flesh, so i think you might say i "actually" know a little bit about them.
1983 RS-X Gazelle FJ20ET Hatch
1986 2.0 DOHC Silvia Notch (FJ20e new NZ)
2001 NM35 Stagea 250T RX FOUR wagon
2000 Nissan MAXIMA Ti 3.0l V6 (stolen and killed)
1974 Datsun 180B SSS (610) Hardtop Coupe.

Offline Jay

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #21 on: 04:05:45 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
Quote from: deadpirate
FJ NA carb'd? Don't you already have a KA? Why bother? At least with the KA you can run to the nearest store and get literally everything


Quote from: deadpirate
Aside from it making the exact same power, I'm sure it will be better by leaps and bounds when it dies on the road and you're forced to wait the next month for maintenance parts to come in.

Engineered better than a KA? Absolutely.

An obsolete engine stateside? Absolutely.

All it can ever do at this point is look cool and get you brownie points. It'd be a pretty neat door stop too

HOWEVER THAT WAS NOT THE POINT OF MY FIRST POST, I was simply implying that you'll be making KA power with a carb'd FJ.


Quote from: deadpirate
My logic and judgement follows that of ease, accessibility and fun/dollar ratio. You honestly don't have to pour every single bit of information you've learned off of wikipedia and google search, you talk as if you've applied any of this information in the real world.

I also find it hard to believe that you don't understand what I had meant although I had already explained it. I know you already have a KA car, why would anyone tell you to have two?

I've also had enough triple weber experience with many an L series, mind you, and it really would be the day to see that power from an FJ. But you're talking about potential possibilities here, for example a single cam ka making 300+hp carbureted is already standard practice for places such as rebello.

However, YOU, doing anything remotely similar, really would be quite the day. And I await your progress, rather than read your about these "possibilities". You can talk as long as you want, man, people read your posts like they read jeffwins posts. They're skimmed, if that.


Quote from: deadpirate
Wait, who the fuck is comparing an FJ vs KA? It scares me to death that no one understands what I'm talking about. Is this really all club-s12 can do? Turn valid points of convenience, cool factor, and common sense into a VS thread?

versus threads are so 2006

^^
It always makes me laugh when no one understands a god damn thing and turns it into a showcase of their own "supposed" egotistical knowledge.

Wait, You mean to tell us you weren't? By COMPARING "Convinence, cool factor, and common sense" to "ease, accessability, and fun/dollar ratio?"
Every single post before this last one by you, WAS comparing KA to FJ..... I suggest you reread your own posts, and re evaluate the whole ""Supposed" Egotistical knowledge" comment you just said. Reiterate EXACTLY what you mean, because this last post, shows to me, that your the one not reading.
« Last Edit: 04:12:31 AM / 04-Aug-10 by Jay »

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Offline David B

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #22 on: 04:22:48 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
hmm. my opinion here

the op here is a dumbass, and doesnt understand car enthusiasm.

which basically means anyone can do whatever they want.




my sohc ka was 40 bux, made 133 rwhp, it was fun etc. the amount of  money a fj costs i could build my sohc up etc. make it SOOO cool.


but, id still have a single cam ka.. and no matter wat the fj is "arro's holy grail"

its a vintage motor in a vintage car, not stateside. which is bad ass. and the motor came with the car out of nissan.


so what some shit breaks, he has a few cars, his enthusiasm and values into his car will get him back on the road.

everyones not out there to make the most horsepower.

just like alot of forum members here arent out there to have the fastest car,
i drive my s12 because its different. its unique from other cars out there. i could easily put my sr into a s13 and clear my headaches away.


though i dont have the most hp, the most money, and the most skill. i get the credit for trying my best with something different, and not bolt on
« Last Edit: 04:24:41 AM / 04-Aug-10 by David B »


caged ca20e/ka24e/sr20det/ka24de/1jzgte SRA hatch. super sick

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Offline Jay

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #23 on: 04:26:18 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
David, The OP wasn't the OP, this was split off from the topic "FJ adjustable cam gears" or something like that, that he threw that comment into the mix.

That being said, Spot on dave
« Last Edit: 04:27:15 AM / 04-Aug-10 by Jay »

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Offline deadpirate

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #24 on: 04:45:57 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
Quote from: Jay
Wait, You mean to tell us you weren't? By COMPARING "Convinence, cool factor, and common sense" to "ease, accessability, and fun/dollar ratio?"
Every single post before this last one by you, WAS comparing KA to FJ..... I suggest you reread your own posts, and re evaluate the whole ""Supposed" Egotistical knowledge" comment you just said. Reiterate EXACTLY what you mean, because this last post, shows to me, that your the one not reading.

Do I literally have to spell it out for everyone?

I pretty much told mr.bigshot to do something spectacular with his FJ, reason being, it's a fucking FJ.

He went bat shit crazy with "inferior ka yada yada"

It was then that I defended my position.

Also you can easily note that I did not include a "factual" or "potential" excel spreadsheet of numbers or yada yada yada.

You also asked me questions about those crazy ka-e's even after I had already stated the name "rebello". It's 2010, google it.


Fucking Christ, it's quite apparent that some of you have the reading/comprehension skills of a toddler. I don't think anyone here understands the concept of context.

Offline VG33ERGazelle?

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #25 on: 05:08:48 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
okay well....not to get involved in an argument that isn't mine...

but you accuse arro of a superiority problem, and that's contradictory. I sense a fair amount of superiority coming from you, sir, calling us all infants and accusing the site as a collective of being essentially retarded.

that being said, I think the original point [in my opinion] was whether or not the FJ is a superior motor to the KA, which...it is.

my opinion does not include parts availability, or cool factor, or anything like that...these things are irrelevant.

the plain and simple fact is that the FJ is simply a better engineered motor, that's all there is to it.

finally, a word to the wise: if you can't make a valid point...don't default to name calling and inflammatory accusations. it's makes us all think you're a prick, and when Arro raises the group vote to kick you out it puts you one step closer to Banland...just a thought.  
« Last Edit: 05:09:25 AM / 04-Aug-10 by VG33ERGazelle? »
Colin L. - First recorded case of a running, drivable VG33ER swapped S12
In Print, 2/6/2011 - Nico Club
Projects:
-'87 SE-V6, VG33ER Swapped
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What I lack in decorum, I make up for in absence of tact.
i has sweet coilovers and hoshinos, also my hood isnt pregnant with a supercharger baby.

Offline Draconis

FJ vs. KA
« Reply #26 on: 05:11:33 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
I wouldnt really say much about being the first guy knowing or doing much with an FJ on these forums.  You stated 03 in another thread...  I do know for a fact that the tech I work with who has owned S12s for about 15yrs has also known about the FJ and has one for just shy of that many years.  He is also one of those who were on here years ago.

But I do agree, for power, a standalone coupled with an FJ would be awesome.  I dont know much about carbs so cannot speak on that, but I do understand that carbs gave way to EFI for a reason.  Talking with some Aussies just recently, I've learned a fair amount.

But for the comment of more of a garage queen type car, totally understand that.  I am there.  I do have to say, dont just take it out to shows and such.  If the weather is good, def. take her out!  I dont drive mine as much as I used to, but when the time is right, I enjoy a good ride and esp. on the freeway.  

But what are we comparing exactly?  Stock KA and FJ?  Modified KA and FJ?  Potential power that can be made from either engine at its peak performance?  I am lost.  Since this is split off another thread, I dont know what is to be in context or not to a previous thread.

Offline VG33ERGazelle?

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #27 on: 05:14:09 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
I read the original thread, as far as I understand we were just trying to say that the FJ was a superior motor to the KA, and that's it.

then it started getting shitty because someone started throwing in factors like parts availability and such...which as I said, it irrelevant to the point.

the FJ is a sturdier, better engineered motor than the KA, and that's the true base of the point.
Colin L. - First recorded case of a running, drivable VG33ER swapped S12
In Print, 2/6/2011 - Nico Club
Projects:
-'87 SE-V6, VG33ER Swapped
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What I lack in decorum, I make up for in absence of tact.
i has sweet coilovers and hoshinos, also my hood isnt pregnant with a supercharger baby.

Offline Arro

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #28 on: 05:43:50 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
I agree with your post colin for the most part, except the comments about who knew about FJ's first on here. It's a fair statement to say that I was the third person on Club-S12 to mention the FJ, the first two being australians who had SEEN one, but at that time, no FJ S12 owners were on this forum. I did my own homework and learned about them after that, but I was the first person on here who actually gave serious consideration to the idea of tinkering with one. ON HERE. I can't speak for people who've had the engine in their garage, collecting dust for 15 years. I can only speak for Club-S12, in which case I was the original FJ preacher on this forum, since the second year of its running.

Back then, the popular *IDEA* was to put an SR20DET in an S12. I say "idea" because back then, only ONE person had done an SR swap (an SR20DE), his name on here was "miker", from the Philippines if I remember right. Not long after that, Cesar from sr20store.com put an SR20DET in his turbo hatchback.

Not long after that, the idea for the KA swaps popped up, and a couple people did KA24E's. Then a couple KA24DE's were swapped. This was late '03. So all this happened within two years. And after that, things just died for awhile. Mostly because nobody bothered to document wiring diags for these swaps, so it was largely left up to the swapper to figure all of it out for himself.

Anyways enough early C-S12 history, my point is I am the *original* FJ lover on this forum.

Now as far as me being a bigshot... I will admit, in some respects, I probably come off that way. But then, if it weren't for me, the idea for this place MIGHT never have happened. And I have put in a LOT of work over the years, before and after my two year hiatus, to keep things on-target. It's more than a hobby for me sometimes, it's a passion. And I don't do it to feel important. I'm not the smartest or most technical guy on here, but I *am* important because I have a clear view of where to take things, and of how to perpetuate the community for the forseeable future.

But I don't do it for personal glory. Or to feel like I am a part of something big (although it's a nice perk, I admit). I do it for everyone else.

Now, let me comment on the Silvia RS-X I own. Sure, I bought it. Sure, I think it's fucking awesome. But I didn't want it for bragging rights. And seriously, how often have I even posted about it since I initially bought it? Listen, other people offered Grant a LOT more than I paid him for it. He didn't want to sell it to just anyone. He wanted it to go to someone who had the means to take care of it properly, and who understood it's value to the community as a whole. If anything, I often feel less like and owner, and more like I am a custodian of this car for the sake of all of Club-S12. And for S12 enthusiasts all over the world, since worldwide there are but a handful of good specimens left (that we are aware of).

If anyone thinks that this makes me some kind of "big shot", then oh well. I run this place, and I happen to have in my possession what I feel is one of the coolest incarnations of our S12's.

Now, what will I do with it engine-wise?

Tune it as a carb'd FJ.

EFI is NOT necessarily "where it's at". And not with the FJ in NA form, for sure. These engines love to BREATHE. About the only advantage the EFI has is altitude changes. Otherwise, the carb'd setup on there now is more than plenty to let this engine injest mass quantities of air. What's more, this Weber FJ intake manifold is a cast piece of a SMALL series run for Nissan -- NOT, to the best of my knowledge, for consumer purchase. Which makes this config also very rare. And makes this car uber-unique. I actually have the original EFI harness and intake, computers, etc, but I see no GOOD reason to put them back and restrict the engine in the process. And I'm not going to boost it, either.

Now, there is a second head and cams, and I have an FJ turbo manifold, and that EFI harness and intake mani. With a turbo bottom end, I would have the parts for a complete FJ20ET. I have been contemplating this, because frankly I really do like the brute-force design of the FJ series engines, and as was mentioned, I have other cars for DD's, so I can afford to pursue such routes.

Really tho, I think making your DD a heavily-tuned S12 is a mistake, but that's a different matter, one which I won't even debate.

Point is, I have this car, and I will continue with it in the path that it was set forth in before I bought it. Carb'd.
-Jason Arro


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formerly,
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'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
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Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
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Offline VG33ERGazelle?

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #29 on: 06:07:57 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
Long story short: arro's rs-x came with an fj in it...so its in its original platform. Why would he rip out the fj for an 'easier' ka? I love arro's rs-x that car is tits.

He's not a dummy like me who's gonna get a wrecked up fj to rebuild and put into something [prolly my s13 coupe] xD
Colin L. - First recorded case of a running, drivable VG33ER swapped S12
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What I lack in decorum, I make up for in absence of tact.
i has sweet coilovers and hoshinos, also my hood isnt pregnant with a supercharger baby.

Offline IggyEGuana

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #30 on: 06:09:13 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
lol this thread is the best

but also has no reason to exist
imo u guys ignored the obvious cuz u really just wanted to argue  

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Offline Jay

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #31 on: 06:16:52 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
Quote from: IggyEGuana
lol this thread is the best

but also has no reason to exist
imo u guys ignored the obvious cuz u really just wanted to argue  
   
I Like iggy's post, I was writing this before Arro put his up. and then had to go do something. But here's what I have to say...

Quote
Do I literally have to spell it out for everyone?
I pretty much told mr.bigshot to do something spectacular with his FJ, reason being, it's a fucking FJ.


When you word it as extremely poorly with no context as you did. Yes
No you didn't, you said simply that the FJ will make KA power, of which, this one has already surpassed. It's timing is just off currently.

Quote
He went bat shit crazy with "inferior ka yada yada"
It was then that I defended my position.


No it wasn't! it was him that said, in one simple non threatening sentence, that the FJ is superior to the KA in every way, and then YOU went bat shit crazy defending your position, making an attack on Arro about either his car, his work, or both. Neither of which was justified in any way. Making a reference that his car will leave him stranded on the side of the road and having to wait for a month for parts was an attempt at subtlety that was clearly seen by everybody on here. Not to mention the reduction of the motor to a mere door stop.

Quote
Also you can easily note that I did not include a "factual" or "potential" excel spreadsheet of numbers or yada yada yada.

Nobody did, I hardly see how this is relevant.

Quote
You also asked me questions about those crazy ka-e's even after I had already stated the name "rebello". It's 2010, google it.

Fucking Christ, it's quite apparent that some of you have the reading/comprehension skills of a toddler. I don't think anyone here understands the concept of context.

Google it yourself and show it to me, I looked, and I don't care to look any farther. Your also once again failing to read. Until you prove to me that there is a STREET 300hp NA KA24E, this argument is 100% pointless. as the FJ can street that with no issues. It's 2010, Learn to back up your posts with proof right away instead of making somebody else work for it. It makes you look better, and eveything work a hell of a lot smoother on the internet, AND in person. In fact, ALL I've found on Robello and a KA24E Was that they were selling a fully built one, that had 174hp 163 tq on Ebay back on '06... AND, from what I've found the HIGHEST recorded NA KAE is 300, by nismo BAJA, and cost them a race teams budget, of course.

And lastly... No, what is apparent to us (or me at least), is that YOU have no idea of context yourself. To put it simply, you said something that was completely pointless in a TECH thread. Of which a HARMLESS sentence was said in reply, to which you responded with a passive aggressive personal jab. Arro's jeffwins assessment was 100% spot on, not yours. Your actions and words were contradicting themselves, something jeffwins was a pro at. I (and others) gave you not 1, but 2 suggestions, and a way to correct your actions and end all of this malarky. But, you ignored it, and because you decided to bring it down to throwing derogatory remarks, demeaning users by attempting to raise yourself above them, not listening to those other users, and the fact that you have absolutely ZERO tact. I'm not leaving your BS up for debate anymore. I am taking measures IMMEDIATELY, and further discussing this matter with my fellow mods and admin, of which we will figure out the proper course of action for you. Normally I'm a dimplatic person on here, and in life, but right now I would rather watch Mel Gibson sodomize himself with a cocaine laced pineapple than read another one of your asinine posts/excuses. Good day and take a freakin break to boost your reading comprehension.


This thread is being left open for legitimate conversation. Even though we're (not you) all pretty much in agreeance with what was all said very clearly. What Iggy said is true, this thread is fairly pointless, but I'm fairly fond of it. And it could go much, much further. And be on topic
« Last Edit: 10:51:26 AM / 04-Aug-10 by Jay »

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Offline VG33ERGazelle?

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #32 on: 07:26:57 AM / 04-Aug-10 »
+1 jay
Colin L. - First recorded case of a running, drivable VG33ER swapped S12
In Print, 2/6/2011 - Nico Club
Projects:
-'87 SE-V6, VG33ER Swapped
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What I lack in decorum, I make up for in absence of tact.
i has sweet coilovers and hoshinos, also my hood isnt pregnant with a supercharger baby.

Offline Arro

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #33 on: 01:21:20 PM / 04-Aug-10 »
Not sure FJ can street 300hp NA with no problem, might be possible tho, and maybe I;'ll find out.
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline VG33ERGazelle?

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #34 on: 01:55:59 PM / 04-Aug-10 »
Ambiguous arro is ambiguous
Colin L. - First recorded case of a running, drivable VG33ER swapped S12
In Print, 2/6/2011 - Nico Club
Projects:
-'87 SE-V6, VG33ER Swapped
-Daily Driven S14K
-Graduate college at some point

What I lack in decorum, I make up for in absence of tact.
i has sweet coilovers and hoshinos, also my hood isnt pregnant with a supercharger baby.

Offline Drft-s12

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #35 on: 02:36:39 PM / 04-Aug-10 »
To me this started about parts availability of a KA and a FJ and if something breaks you can go to any parts place to get parts for a KA and not wait a couple weeks.....well this is why its not a DD like Arro said and i'm building my FJ Notch to occasionally drive it to show and what not....thats why i have another S12 to DD  

SO basically KA=DD.......FJ=Respect lol


Trust me it took me almost a year to figure out where to get parts when i first got my FJ....but it paid off to research because i can get anything for my FJ......it just cost $$$$$$$$$ but hell of worth it at the end......

Offline turbo-s12

FJ vs. KA
« Reply #36 on: 10:03:57 PM / 04-Aug-10 »
arro i will def. take ur car anyday fj and all!!

Offline Deezus

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FJ vs. KA
« Reply #37 on: 06:12:40 PM / 05-Aug-10 »
My car goes vroom tss


Deez why the flip are you so smart sometimes.

OMFG THE TROLL IS OUT!

Deezus is always in maximum trollverdrive mode.