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Author Topic: VG30DE??  (Read 16807 times)

Offline 87-2hundie

VG30DE??
« on: 03:17:30 PM / 17-Feb-11 »
hey guys i got a question for ya'll i found this parts car 1990 300zx with a VG30E and was woundering whats the deal with that swap. like its the whole car so i got ECU wiring harness etc. could anyone one point me in a good direction for this swap like what would i be getting myself into?? cause at first i was just going to do a gay sohc ka swap cause how cheap that swap is but i found this parts car for 500 bux! And the VG only has 175000 and new injectors lol My concerns are using stock s12 rear subframe and drivetrain, like i know i could'nt use my tranny and probs the driveshaft aswell :( but can the s12 rear end hold up with the VG30E?? And another question what kinda mods would have to be done up in the engine bay? Ill look through the "ENGINE TECH" forum to resurch awsell but any help would be a big win:) Thanks bro's

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Offline Redneck

Re: VG30E??
« Reply #1 on: 04:06:48 PM / 17-Feb-11 »
First off, I think you are referring to the vg30de not the vg30e. The 90 300zx is the z32 which came with the vg30de but you keep refering to it as the vg30e. As for your other questions:

You'll probably need an SE engine crossmember because according to your profile you have an 87 ca18et which has a different crossmember then the v6's. These can be fairly hard to find and pricey sometimes (200-300ish).

The s12 rear end (especially the r200 which you have) will handle a vg30de just fine. You might be able to get away using your s12 C tranny on the vg30de with a bellhousing swap but I am kinda doubting it. Driveshaft most likely will have to be custom made.

Engine bay mods to make it fit are kinda up in the air. Not many guys have done the vg30de swap into the s12 but it definetly will fit. Because of this your probably likely to not find much info on the swap when you search the forums for info.

Honestly 500 bucks for the whole z32 parts car is super cheap. You should have most everything there you need for the swap besides the crossmember and a few other parts. HOWEVER, especially into a 4 cylinder s12, it is a pretty uncommon and more challenging swap. Because of how custom it is your probably going to end up paying at least a thousand or two extra on all the small stuff that will add up. I know the ka is just a ka but the vg30de would be a lot more work. If you don't mind a bigger project, are decent at fabrication (or have access to someone that can fabricate stuff for fairly cheap) and have at least an extra thousand or two for the small stuff I don't see why you couldn't go for the vg30de swap. On the other hand, if you want something that will be fast and easy with no fabrication (or next to no fabrication anyway) that is going to be a lot cheaper the ka24 would be the more ideal route.
FIrst my rims are horrible, than there ok when painted black , now my cars horrible, now my fenders are to much after i was told i couldnt do it.... Lol club s12 ftw.....  Only here have Ive been told they look like shit..... SOrry its not bone stock with crown vic rims running the stock vg making 130whp and looks generic like every other one. My car looks dope ive been told this a billion times on local forums....


Offline Jordan

Re: VG30E??
« Reply #2 on: 05:33:11 PM / 17-Feb-11 »
First off, welcome to the forum. All your questions have been answered on the forum and are saved in the correct section.

You need to do a lot of reading first. The 1990 300zx is very different that an S12. It has a VG30de, not a VG30e. Suspension/rear end is completely different as well.

Sorry Redneck, I didn't see your post before mine. If your car is set up for a 4cyl I say go that way unless you have money and access to the parts Redneck mentioned. If you want to use the Z32 I say find a SE that is ready for a V6 to begin with. But the general opinion seems to be go for a KA or SR and be done with it. In the end it will cost you less time and money.
« Last Edit: 05:40:14 PM / 17-Feb-11 by Jordan »
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1986 SE Notch Swap in progress. Build Thread:   http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=27158

Offline SlickS12

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Re: VG30E??
« Reply #3 on: 09:04:44 PM / 17-Feb-11 »
Its the going opinion that swapping a DE motor into this chassis is not only expensive, its an extensive project, pretty costly, and nobody has ever done this yet and that is why... but GL man!
'84 SRA VG Notch

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Offline EightySix200SX

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Re: VG30E??
« Reply #4 on: 11:45:09 PM / 17-Feb-11 »
Its the going opinion that swapping a DE motor into this chassis is not only expensive, its an extensive project, pretty costly, and nobody has ever done this yet and that is why... but GL man!

actually one person has done a VG30DETT swap a red hatch, and one has done a VG30DE as well but never finished.

THERE ALSO WAS A SUPER DOPE VE30DE!!! YES FWD "J30 CHASSIS" (89-94 maxima) VE motor! the VQ series' daddy! someone was int the process it was a sick build but they never finished it. full custom!

talk about extensive yes. and talk about no room to work on the bitch once its in. i have a z32 and its wider than a s12 its a bitch to work on in N/A form too. 220hp na though? not to shabby it be fun! do it!
« Last Edit: 11:45:54 PM / 17-Feb-11 by EightySix200SX »
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Offline fyneyoungstunna

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #5 on: 11:12:49 AM / 08-Apr-11 »
if thats all the hp you want...250 something is the record on an NA vg30de, then yes its a good swap, tq and hp are all there. no custom driveshaft needed if you get a trans from a z31 or s12se.

But, and this is a BIG BUT, if you want any more hp then you will hate yourself for buying an NA vgDE because without a deep wallet its just not going to happen. Even little stuff on the vg is expensive to buy,costly to maintain,and is very tempramental!

A ka would be a better choice....dont beleive me...check out the KA24de z32 swap......
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

Offline silverton

Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #6 on: 02:04:23 PM / 08-Apr-11 »
THERE ALSO WAS A SUPER DOPE VE30DE!!! YES FWD "J30 CHASSIS" (89-94 maxima) VE motor!

Ehhh... the VE is basically a VG, they just had to angle the heads more to fit the hood clearances of the maxima.
-Dennis

BoostedVG (in regards to people hating on the VG) - Me thinks they were not the mechanic they thought and blamed it all on the engine.

Colonol Gustard - youre one of the few people that represent the s12 chassis like a boss!

Offline SyphonS12

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #7 on: 10:27:40 PM / 08-Jun-11 »
question on mounts?? did you use stock ones? or did you fabricate some?? i heard that 7m mounts would work also

Post Merge: 11:13:46 PM / 08-Jun-11
wait wtf how did i post on this lol
« Last Edit: 11:13:46 PM / 08-Jun-11 by SyphonS12 »

Offline radoublely

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #8 on: 07:36:00 PM / 06-Jul-11 »
 Who's ready to see the VG30DE start up in my car?  Oh yeah! saw it this week baby! fuel and everything.  Final video should be next week ;)

note: When you do the custom driveshaft just get polyeurathane bushings.  Tore the original from the 300z portion of the car already... Back to the laboratory!
@SyphonS12 the original motor mounts will work (except for the transmission mount if you are starting with the SEV6), but get some polyeurathane mounts all around.  Don't go cheap on this one, it can cost you expensive parts and if not caught soon enough a driveshaft up YOU.
« Last Edit: 01:16:43 AM / 17-Sep-11 by radoublely »
Special thanks to Special Vehicle Services in El Paso TX.  Check out http://www.txsvs.com/ for more innovative builds or stop on by and ask them a few questions.

Offline radoublely

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #9 on: 10:12:25 PM / 16-Jul-11 »
hey guys i got a question for ya'll i found this parts car 1990 300zx with a VG30E and was woundering whats the deal with that swap. like its the whole car so i got ECU wiring harness etc. could anyone one point me in a good direction for this swap like what would i be getting myself into?? cause at first i was just going to do a gay sohc ka swap cause how cheap that swap is but i found this parts car for 500 bux! And the VG only has 175000 and new injectors lol My concerns are using stock s12 rear subframe and drivetrain, like i know i could'nt use my tranny and probs the driveshaft aswell :( but can the s12 rear end hold up with the VG30E?? And another question what kinda mods would have to be done up in the engine bay? Ill look through the "ENGINE TECH" forum to resurch awsell but any help would be a big win:) Thanks bro's

Let me be the first to really talk smack about this swap being the only person on this forum with the swap lol (no offense guys, but the VG30DE is sitting in my car)

1. You're going to want to not buy a used VG30DE from a Junkyard.  Buy the entire setup from a certified JDM motor company.  You can get the motor, transmission, wiring harness and ECU with accessories for about $1,800 shipped and delivered.  http://www.jdmenginescorp.com/contact are the guys I used.

2. Is your car an SE V6? if you answer is no, reconsider some other swaps and call me in the morning J/K.  This is pretty important, because if it is an SE-V6 you already have the single overhead cam v6 VG V6 engine crossmember and you're much much closer to making the swap.

3.  New driveshaft.  Be ready to buy it.  I used a combination of a 300zx driveshaft in the rear and 240 in the front, and we CUT AND BALANCED this setup.

4. Rear diff.  if you have an sev6 OR a TURBO model you have an R200 diff, this may be IS an open diff or a clutch LSD depending on the model. The turbo R200 is a 4.11, and the SE V6 diff is a 3.90. The 3.90 will be better for higher horsepower applications, as the 4.11 will just spin the wheels way too easy in higher power ranges, leaving your first and second gears useless, and your top speed hampered. check it out, if it is an open diff an 88-89 300zx turbo diff will be clutch LSD.
 
5. Be prepared for custom piping all around.  The stock headers on the 300zx will run right into your frame and that's no-bueno.  A good map for the piping is actually off an infiniti J30 ;) so don't be afraid to play around but that stuff pretty much works like lucky charms on acid.

6. You have 2 THREE transmission options, the original transmission on your car can mount up with a few mods but there is a shit aftermarket for it.  My advice is take some time, make some room and a few cuts, move the shift lever, and work out a shorter e-brake and slap on the heavier duty can take anything and has an aftermarket 300zx trans. You should be able to also use a KA/SR S13/S14 transmission with a bellhousing swap, but note that this will also relocate the shifter back. Search for the KA swaps for more info and pictures.

7.  Guess what? you're going to have to make a transmission mount (if you have an se-v6 that is use any other transmission than an S12 C-trans).  As far as mounts go, I'd say grab some polyeurathane shit and get that beast in. There has been some success using square tube stock from home improvement stores as a basis for a solid trans mount on Mark II cars. Mark I cars have more of a variety of mounts depending if your car began its life as an automatic, manual nonturbo, or turbo, so you Mark I peeps will need to make something specific to your car.

8.  Wiring.  A bitch.  Please seek professional help.  Really. 

9.  You'll have to cut the webbing on the hood.  Yes. 

10. This isn't a step 1-whatever instruction guide, but it should give you a clue as to what you're getting yourself into and help avoid the pains I went through whle SVS in El Paso pioneered the swap.  Look them up, http://www.txsvs.com/ is their website, they are masters of the VG series motor and have painstaikingly designed and engineered the swap done in my VG30DE powered s12.

Remember, My suspension setup is a custom fab/tien coilover setup and my brakes are from an s14 with slotted cross drilled rotors and steel braided lines.  I use stickier tires and wider diameter and larger rims.  A car set up like mine will cost around 10k to have built  (I have a reciept somewhere lol).  But that's not a lot of money considering stock the VG30DE puts out around 225 to the flywheel and it's a lightweigh RWD sports car with suspension and everything to go with it.  I'd say be ready to part with a lot of your bank account but don't skimp out on the essentials when building a car.  Clutch and flywheel upgrades while the motors out? A LOT CHEAPER.  I hope this helps man, good luck.
Special thanks to Special Vehicle Services in El Paso TX.  Check out http://www.txsvs.com/ for more innovative builds or stop on by and ask them a few questions.

Offline Arro

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #10 on: 05:01:22 AM / 17-Jul-11 »
I'm editing a couple things in your post to clarify some things, but otherwise it supports what I've been saying in the Swap Guide... very good insight you have there.
-Jason Arro


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formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline methylprop

Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #11 on: 05:11:58 AM / 17-Jul-11 »
vg30dett or bust.

Offline radoublely

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #12 on: 11:56:06 AM / 17-Jul-11 »
I'm editing a couple things in your post to clarify some things, but otherwise it supports what I've been saying in the Swap Guide... very good insight you have there.

No problem, seems like I missed out on a few points/wording/and options while doing this swap.  I'm fairly pleased with the finished product so far and am looking forward to getting out on the track back home (Sandia Motor Speedway is my home course and me and my old car club are going to have a reunion of sorts).  The last thing I really want to stress is with a good suspension setup, brake setup, and proper installation this is a very usable and functional car with decent HP and Torque numbers that handles really well.   I did move the battery to the back and lost some weight up front to help restore the weight distribution.

I'd also like to point out that I consider myself a decent "weekend warrior" mechanic but with all the custom fabrication that went went in to this build and without serious time on my hands due to my job I felt much better with this in the hands of real professional tuners.  This isn't to say don't attempt so much as to say "attempt with caution" lol.  Let me know if you have any questions on the build and if I can't answer them I can send them to my mechanic. 
Special thanks to Special Vehicle Services in El Paso TX.  Check out http://www.txsvs.com/ for more innovative builds or stop on by and ask them a few questions.

Offline Wolf Dilworth

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #13 on: 03:47:35 PM / 17-Jul-11 »
Hey radoublely

You stated the wiring is a PITA. Can you elaborate?  I realize there is a interlink with ABS and such. Did anyone create a list of items that need addressing and their fixes?

Offline radoublely

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #14 on: 08:30:58 PM / 19-Jul-11 »
Hey radoublely

You stated the wiring is a PITA. Can you elaborate?  I realize there is a interlink with ABS and such. Did anyone create a list of items that need addressing and their fixes?

Well, let me start by saying I kept the ABS out of the equation.  The main problem you're going to notice is that the VG30DE and accompanying transmission are actually very advanced for early 90's vehicles and is therefore, complex.  Not only did this cause difficulty with the body harness of the s12 but also you're going to have to keep in mind that your tach and speedo gauges are not going to work because an SEv6 200sx is a fly-by wire car and the 300zx is an alien space vessel in comparison.  The VG30DE is also a very HOT running motor.  This means even with low mileage motors from Japan, there's still a likelihood of you needing to track down wiring components/bits and pieces.  You should not only have the proper tools, but the right know-how just because of this huge factor.
Special thanks to Special Vehicle Services in El Paso TX.  Check out http://www.txsvs.com/ for more innovative builds or stop on by and ask them a few questions.

Offline Arro

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #15 on: 08:39:48 PM / 19-Jul-11 »
I don't understand why you can't just swap the bellhousing to an S12 SE bellhousing, and use an S13/S14 or S12 "C" transmission...?
-Jason Arro


'85 Nissan 200SX (KA24DE)
formerly,
'85 Nissan Silvia RS-X - FJ20 w/ dual Weber carbs
'84 Nissan 200SX Turbo
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it - self quote
Quote from: ka-t.org
Hella flush and all associates should be gunned down for brainwashing people into thinking a 225 and lots of camber is proper wheel fitment. THAT IS EASY, anyone can camber a skinny as tire till it dosnt rub. Now fitting an 11 with a 315 on stock fender with reasonable camber, that is fitment. And looks, and performs better than both.
i dont own a s12 at the moment but trying to acquire one to get rid of my s13 hatch
Quote from: SHOUTBOX
[27:54] zastaba: I had a friend touch the contacts on his distributer once
[28:04] zastaba: He did the super jumping up and down pain dance

Offline Wolf Dilworth

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #16 on: 09:15:25 PM / 19-Jul-11 »
^^^  There is an issue with the Flywheel clearance...  Re-drill the VG30E flywheel and you could use the 71-C
« Last Edit: 09:16:14 PM / 19-Jul-11 by Wolf Dilworth »

Offline tommy

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #17 on: 10:27:12 PM / 19-Jul-11 »
Re-drill the VG30E flywheel and you could use the 71-C

I would add that you better FUCKING know what you are doing if you really want to redrill a 6 bolt flywheel into an 8 bolt flywheel... that thing is spinning right by your legs and is protected by 1/4 inch of alloy bellhousing... if all the holes are not perfectly alligned or are not exactly the diameter of the bolt that hold it, then you are running the risk of having a 20lbs steel disk surrended with 100+ teeth flying your way... and this always ends badly....
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Offline radoublely

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #18 on: 10:32:54 PM / 19-Jul-11 »
I have some photos here that should help point out the points you have to bang out the undercarriage body for the VG30DE trans, my decision to go with this option was partly to avoid flywheel customization and also directly related to aftermarket availability in the DE trans.  The fact is, you're much better supported for future modifications by keeping with the motor that comes in the JDM engine exchange package.  Yes, we're looking into wheel speed sensor/heads up display combo for the speedo and an aftermarket tach.

note: I did not include a photo of the cut we made for the shift lever which sits further back in the vehicle.





« Last Edit: 10:34:05 PM / 19-Jul-11 by radoublely »
Special thanks to Special Vehicle Services in El Paso TX.  Check out http://www.txsvs.com/ for more innovative builds or stop on by and ask them a few questions.

Offline Wolf Dilworth

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Re: VG30DE??
« Reply #19 on: 09:53:34 AM / 20-Jul-11 »
I would add that you better FUCKING know what you are doing

Tommy

I never said it was easy, but a competent machine shop can do it.  Yes I agree 100% that it is absolutely critical to have the work done properly.  Not just any shop is up to the task, and many will not do it just for the liability.  It is an involved process and would prolly negate most folks attempting it.