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Author Topic: SRA Information Thread  (Read 15832 times)

Offline Athens

SRA Information Thread
« on: 05:03:25 AM / 23-Jul-11 »
This thread is the new version. An antiquated version of it can be found at the link below. This is being kept there for now until I get the time to consolidate and prune everything, make it much cleaner, and await some more data from DavidB.

http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=21752.msg173686#msg173686

-J




Decided it's time for the SRA guys to have a nice source of information to reference because the other thread was started by a person who doesn't get on the site anymore and could use an update.

Basics:

The solid axle is found in the USDA 1984 CA20E cars, some Candian built 85's, and some FJ equipped cars.  The suspension design utilizes a 4 link design similar to a 4x4 truck, with the sway bar mounted under the axle and attached to the lower links. It sends power to the wheels using an H190 differential.

Specs:

Model: H190
Differential Size: 7.49 inches
Maximum Torque Capacity ~285 lb. ft.

Advantages:

* Camber doesn't increase when the car is lowered.
* More simple than IRS type rear ends.
* Excellent traction for drag or drift applications.
* Very strong and durable.

Disadvantages:

* Camber doesn't change, ever.
* Bumps, potholes, etc cause handling issues while cornering.
* No cheap/easy limited slip options.
* No cheap way to do a 5 lug conversion as hubs are fused to the drive axles
* Drum brakes (Conversions can be done)

Upgrades/Crossover parts:

Suspension:

http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=33389.0
Everything for the IRS suspension can be done for SRA as well.

Brakes:

S110 Rear Disc Brakes (Need caliper, rotor, hub and axle)
S110 Drum Brakes fit as well.

If you convert to S110 rear discs you can use s13 calipers and rotors, but you need to use the left caliper on the right side and vice versa. Also, when converting to s110 your e-brake won't work very well, if at all.
Here are some good pads to upgrade with in the rear.

Porterfield Rear Drums (Listed as S110)
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/product_info.php?productID=3952 - R-4 (Track only)
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/product_info.php?productID=3953 - R4-S (Track/Street)

Porterfield Rear Pads (S110/S12/S13)
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/product_info.php?productID=2618 - R4 (Track only)
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/product_info.php?productID=2619 - R4-S (Track/Street)

Differential:

Nismo LSD (Good luck finding one, they're extremely rare and expensive)
S110 H190 (81-82 S110), the axles also will work.
Another option would be to remove the stock axle all together and swap something else in that has more options. Some good candidates would be Mk. II Celica Supra rear axle and the Ford 9".

4-Links:

Techno Toy Tuning Adjustable 4-links (http://www.technotoytuning.com/productdetail.php?p=688)
You have to specify that you're using them for an S12, as the AE86 ones are off by about an inch. They do make them, but they just don't have a page for the S12, which is why they're not listed.

Sway Bars:

As far as I know there aren't any sway bars that work on the solid rear. I could be wrong though, anyone have any information about this?

Feel free to add information you might have.

Credit:
Julie: Starting the other thread and providing some useful information.
David B: Finding out that the S110 rear diff and axles would work, and for the method of using s13 calipers and rotors on s110 hardware.
EightySix200SX: Suspension information
« Last Edit: 02:30:02 AM / 06-Aug-11 by Athens »

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CA20E- bringing you blistering 2 and a half week 1/4 mile times since 1984

Offline mentalxpreshun

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #1 on: 07:44:34 AM / 23-Jul-11 »
SRA S12s FTW!!! =)

Offline Jeremy A

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #2 on: 10:59:36 AM / 23-Jul-11 »
Keep this posted man!  Extremely good resource.

Offline I_heart_VVL

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #3 on: 12:03:36 PM / 23-Jul-11 »
what? since when do AE86 4links bolt into the S12?
this is new news to me.
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Offline SlickS12

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #4 on: 01:11:17 PM / 23-Jul-11 »
This looks to be the making of a good thread...  Am very interested to see what comes of this :)
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Offline tommy

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #5 on: 04:28:21 PM / 23-Jul-11 »
what? since when do AE86 4links bolt into the S12?
this is new news to me.

Some aftermarket kit for the corolla are adjustable with ball pivot ends... and anyhow, it's just a little cutting and welding away if one of more mount doesn't line up....
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Offline Athens

Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #6 on: 05:14:56 PM / 23-Jul-11 »
what? since when do AE86 4links bolt into the S12?
this is new news to me.
I believe they work because they're adjustable, so I doubt that any non-adjustable AE86 4-links would work. I know if you call Techno Toy Tuning and say you want their 4-links but you're using them on an s12 they do have a set that bolts in no problem, but I don't think they're any different from the AE86 ones.
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Offline I_heart_VVL

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #7 on: 06:38:09 PM / 23-Jul-11 »
well that makes sense :o
ive emailed T3 before on 4links specifically for the S12, and they told me i would have to supply the dimensions and itd still be the same price as the 86 ones. They even said itd be the same to get them made to BOLT in a Celica/Supra rear, which i want.

but for almost $400? fuck that, im just gonna make my own :P
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Offline Jay

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #8 on: 08:06:51 PM / 23-Jul-11 »
^
Word.

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Offline mentalxpreshun

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #9 on: 01:19:59 AM / 25-Jul-11 »
Thanks for starting this post Athens! I've actually been wondering about brake upgrades for the SRA. Seems as though SRA info is hard to come by. And last I read somewhere, I think the idea of the rear disc conversion wasn't really worth it cost-to-performance-wise. Will keep up with this thread for sure.

SRA's UNITE!!! =P

Offline Athens

Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #10 on: 02:43:51 AM / 25-Jul-11 »
In two weeks i'll probably order the Porterfield rear r4-s shoes and I'll see if they fit, if so then the disc conversion isn't nearly as necessary as it was thought to be, especially for drifting. I bet racing brake shoes grab pretty hard when you rip that old e-brake. Still not as good as a hydro, but not bad.
CA20E- bringing you blistering 2 and a half week 1/4 mile times since 1984

Offline mentalxpreshun

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #11 on: 04:22:04 AM / 25-Jul-11 »
Staying tuned for sure... I'm due for new rear brake goodies too... interesting thing on their info page is: **** We can make pads for any vehicle or caliper *** o_0

Post Merge: 04:26:18 AM / 25-Jul-11
EVEN BETTER... just noticed theyre located in Costa Mesa which is about 15-20 minutes away from me
« Last Edit: 04:26:18 AM / 25-Jul-11 by mentalxpreshun »

Offline David B

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #12 on: 04:41:23 AM / 25-Jul-11 »
dont listen to the bs that s110 axles are weaker then s12. because apparantly they withstand my 1jz and my sr that had a comp stage 4 clutch


caged ca20e/ka24e/sr20det/ka24de/1jzgte SRA hatch. super sick

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Goddamn David you seriously are hard core man.
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Offline tommy

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Re: SRA S12 Crossover Parts Thread
« Reply #13 on: 09:02:43 AM / 25-Jul-11 »
^^^while drifting maybe, but with the 280 ft/lbs the 1jz is putting down, I would be a little more cautious to go and try it on the drag strip with 24.5 racing slicks and glue on the strip... normally, if your doing anything else than drag racing, you can get away with pretty small axles, the diff crownwheel/pinion is normally what blows first on a welded diff... on an open diff, it's the spidergears

I don't know the difference in diameter between the h165 and the h190, but they might be very close... hell, the toyota 6.38 and 6.7 (except the kouki ae86 and the celica gt4) use the same axles...same diameter and splines, they slide right on both differential... same with the h145 and h150 from the datsun 1200 and b210
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Offline David B

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Re: SRA Information Thread
« Reply #14 on: 02:04:56 AM / 06-Aug-11 »
^ most deffinetly, i run a stock clutch on the 1jz to be careful about it. any form of drag racing i wouldnt do with a heavy clutch, id just get a IRS s12 honestly, or swap rear ends.

the corolla 4link and s12 4link is apparantly different the guy i emailed had all the specs done already which is as of 2011.. i measured a corolla once and there were only a  inch or so off.


my question is, do i ditch the swaybar? will i be needing that still?
idk it should take a few days for them to get here

Post Merge: [time]07:20:52 AM / 06-Aug-11 [/time]

I don't know the difference in diameter between the h165 and the h190, but they might be very close... hell, the toyota 6.38 and 6.7 (except the kouki ae86 and the celica gt4) use the same axles...same diameter and splines, they slide right on both differential... same with the h145 and h150 from the datsun 1200 and b210

heres a whole s110 SRA i came across for 50 bux take note that also youll have to reroute the brake lines or get shorter ones. (the hardlines) if your just gonna just swap axles. or even diff


i had a apparantly h190 sra hatch, and i blew my diff and temporarily installed a  h165 from a s110 (whatever disk brake axles are)
then later down the road i threw the axles in. they were all interchangeable from what i came across

brembo s13 rotors, s110 calipers and s110 brackets with s13 pads. pad sits kinda weird towards the edge of the rotor but it works decently. but now i run s13 calipers as stated but flipped. still s110 brackets though. s13 brackets wont work




some info about this here. with pics
http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=29805.0



and some more going through the process when i broke my diff and comparisons to a r200. and explains you need the pinion shaft flange when swapping to s110 diff!!



http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=29793.0


oh and heres a good answer for the s110 h165 being so similar to a h190. apparantly there are h190 s110's, so it just matters on what the axle looks like i guess

They look the same because they are the same, well I should say that both are H-190s. The '81 and '82 S110 switched from H-165B to H-190 for those two years when the Z22 motor was offered. As stated the H165 would never swap into the H-190 housing.
« Last Edit: 02:29:57 AM / 06-Aug-11 by David B »


caged ca20e/ka24e/sr20det/ka24de/1jzgte SRA hatch. super sick

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Goddamn David you seriously are hard core man.
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Offline Athens

Re: SRA Information Thread
« Reply #15 on: 02:25:03 AM / 06-Aug-11 »
I'll update the thread with the info about the t3 4-links. And just run with no sway bar and compare it to with one and see which one works better for you while you're drifting.
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Offline sam31183

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Re: SRA Information Thread
« Reply #16 on: 02:36:26 AM / 06-Aug-11 »
autoxers pull rear sway bars...allowing the rear end to move makes sras more grippy...i say keep the sway bar on.

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Offline David B

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Re: SRA Information Thread
« Reply #17 on: 02:41:26 AM / 06-Aug-11 »
autoxers pull rear sway bars...allowing the rear end to move makes sras more grippy...i say keep the sway bar on.

i need grip. a ton. for the rear. the coils im getting for the rear are gonna be way softer then the front. though wont travel much


caged ca20e/ka24e/sr20det/ka24de/1jzgte SRA hatch. super sick

Quote from: Arro
Goddamn David you seriously are hard core man.
Quote from: tjs91tsi
Ohh, and unless you havn't figured it out yet, Stop driving with coolant leaks and Stop dropping nails in your fucking trannys!!!

Offline tommy

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Re: SRA Information Thread
« Reply #18 on: 04:46:02 PM / 06-Aug-11 »
the softer you go in the rear, the more understeer you create.... I think you need the opposite ;)....

when nascar came to montreal 2 years ago (It's the same road track that the F1 are racing on), they had the worst rain ever in a nascar race without stopping.  Pit crew started unhooking the rear swaybar so the car wouldn't oversteer too much in the turns...

I thought that only the 83 s110 had the h190... ho well

And man you are not scared of anything... I rebuild my trannies and diff inside a clean room in my basement, I put a clean blanket on the work bench and I cover it under an other clean one so that nothing gets on the gear, dust and all.... you do it on the garage floor among the sand, rocks and dead oak leaves... lol you really are "hard core man" :P
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Offline I_heart_VVL

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Re: SRA Information Thread
« Reply #19 on: 09:13:31 PM / 06-Aug-11 »
^i think not actually, you only get understeer from you go tooooo soft. which is why most aftermarket coilovers use a softer rear spring. kinda like the same as less tire pressure increases traction i guess. and quite contrary to the old belief, drift cars NEED rear traction too. they actually be set up like grip cars in order to be real competitive. more traction = faster accel. while on throttle/faster decel. while off throttle. = better/easier handling = a MUCH more predictable car.

Quote from: Athens
If you convert to S110 rear discs you can use s13 calipers and rotors, but you need to use the left caliper on the right side and vice versa. Also, when converting to s110 your e-brake won't work very well, if at all.
Here are some good pads to upgrade with in the rear.


so since we can in fact use S13 rear calipers, i would only assume we can also use S14/S15/J30/Q45 rears as they're also a bolt-in upgrade for S13s? just flip them?
this seems too good to be true IMO -.-

Post Merge: 09:15:35 PM / 06-Aug-11
@David B

i think pulling the rear sway off would help a great deal with rear traction, but thats just me.
« Last Edit: 09:15:35 PM / 06-Aug-11 by I_heart_VVL »
1987 SE V6 - Gone
2004 Mazda RX8 GT - Gone
2003 Subaru WRX - Gone
1997 Mazda Miata - SOLD!
2003 Nissan 350Z - Gone
1989 RHD RB25 S13 - Gone, thank god
1989 two tone SR coupe because s12s are dumb