Club-S12 International S12OC United Kingdom ClubS12 France S12Silvia Australia S12.org.ua Eastern Europe S12 of Sweden S12 Japan BBS
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Car not self steering (info inside)  (Read 9812 times)

Offline Ju_S12_Turbo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Posts: 1,740
Car not self steering (info inside)
« on: 01:53:47 AM / 05-Nov-11 »
By self steering, I mean when you start a drift and let go of the wheel and it will spin to full lock on its own. My car, I have to turn the wheel myself or it will just spin lol.

My alignment specs are +5 caster (maxed out almost hitting fender) front camber is -5.5 front total toe is -0.25 out.

Rear camber.........-6.5 (semi trailing arm :| ) and total toe is 1.5 in. Rear is maxed out in all adjustments, only thing left is to slot the subframe but that is something else!


Anyway, I am running S14/s13 front stuff and no front sway. I am at a slight lost of what could be causing this. The things left on my list are, Getting and installing a front sway to see if that will help. That being said, the other S12 (roof/adam) has no front sway and it DOES self steer like any other 240sx. The only difference between our cars (besides engines and coilover brand), is his car does NOT have power steering, Which brings me to the next thing I was thinking about.

I think my power steering pump is not being able to keep up and cause my rack to get a form of hydro lock (in a sense) and I have to help it finish the job. Does anybody here think that this could cause this or have any input? I am leaning towards it more and more when I think about it, because I had this problem when I was auto-x'ing, the wheel was just super hard to turn on tight low speed turns fast.


Any help would be great. Thanks!

Facebook Share    


Offline Prolowtone

  • Mr. Clean
  • CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Langley, BC/ Calgary, AB
  • Posts: 2,546
  • Vehicle: 1985 Nissan 200SX
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #1 on: 02:23:08 AM / 05-Nov-11 »
Have you had an alignment? your toe could be out. It effected my power steering pretty good (was 2" out)...would turn by itself to the right but not the left and the car drove in a straight line.. but my pump was fucked and blew up the day after i drifted the car so now i just run without it. 

Try this.. Jack your front tires off the ground and start your car. If something is fucked up in your rack your tires will turn to the left/right by themselves.. even try to turn the wheel to either side a bit then let go and see if it keeps turning. Im not the most knowledgeable when it comes to this so maybe someone has some better input
I keep my car cleaner then my room
Fuck you then, I'll take my movies, box of chocolates, bottle of wine and chloroform somewhere else.
Adding an SSD to that is kinda like strapping a 3 inch stainless HKS exhaust on a geo metro.

Offline Ju_S12_Turbo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #2 on: 02:51:56 AM / 05-Nov-11 »
I have got a alignment done, rack is brand new and all the bushings are new (that affect the steering) and I have a1 racing tie rods so everything is tight.

Offline Prolowtone

  • Mr. Clean
  • CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Langley, BC/ Calgary, AB
  • Posts: 2,546
  • Vehicle: 1985 Nissan 200SX
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #3 on: 02:59:19 AM / 05-Nov-11 »
Damn... Not a clue :/ im as interested in the problem as you now
I keep my car cleaner then my room
Fuck you then, I'll take my movies, box of chocolates, bottle of wine and chloroform somewhere else.
Adding an SSD to that is kinda like strapping a 3 inch stainless HKS exhaust on a geo metro.

Offline I_heart_VVL

  • ✄-------
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: TX
  • Posts: 1,082
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #4 on: 11:44:14 AM / 05-Nov-11 »
isnt stock caster is like 4 degrees?
try dialing in a bit more caster. if it hits the fender then just take a hammer to the wheel wells.
1987 SE V6 - Gone
2004 Mazda RX8 GT - Gone
2003 Subaru WRX - Gone
1997 Mazda Miata - SOLD!
2003 Nissan 350Z - Gone
1989 RHD RB25 S13 - Gone, thank god
1989 two tone SR coupe because s12s are dumb

Offline Wolf Dilworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: Austin, Tx.
  • Posts: 1,588
    • http://
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #5 on: 12:28:28 PM / 05-Nov-11 »
You want to have Toe-in not toe-out.  Toe-in helps your tires return to center.  Caster also plays in this equation.
« Last Edit: 12:28:38 PM / 05-Nov-11 by Wolf Dilworth »

Offline Ju_S12_Turbo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #6 on: 02:52:36 PM / 05-Nov-11 »
I know stock caster is 4, but at 5 its close to hitting the front part of the fender.

And wolf, the car returns to center it just doesn't drift the way I want it to. kinda hard to explain over the internet.

Offline Jay

  • Now v3.0.14 rev. C... Cowbell included!
  • Moderators
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Calumet, Mi
  • Posts: 5,543
  • Vehicle: 1989 BMW 3 Series
  • ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้༼ ຈل͜ຈ༽ส็็็็็็à¹â€
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #7 on: 03:35:12 PM / 05-Nov-11 »
Mine does what your describing. Just a flick of the wrist and it hits the opposite lock like nothing.  I have power steering.

But it is a distinct possibility that your pump could simply not be keeping up.
Manual steering eliminates that, and makes it easier. Yes.
It could also be the rack itself. Clogged up and all nasty.

Do you run ATF or "Power steering fluid" In your system? I've used nothing but Dex/Merc in mine.

Quote from: David B
i like gay porn. but i dont post that in my sig links.

Offline Ju_S12_Turbo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #8 on: 05:04:30 PM / 05-Nov-11 »
The rack is brand new along with killer delrin bushings lol. Yes it is atf, I flushed all of the old stuff out (before new rack) because the other rack was done. I think I might just order a new power steering pump, seems like that is the only thing left that I have not change.

Offline I_heart_VVL

  • ✄-------
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: TX
  • Posts: 1,082
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #9 on: 12:25:22 AM / 06-Nov-11 »
You want to have Toe-in not toe-out.  Toe-in helps your tires return to center.  Caster also plays in this equation.

toe out is good for drifting because you will have a much sharper turn in, less understeer and in some extreme cases more angle which is especially helpfull in low-power scenarios. yes, it sucks for straight line driving but if its a drift car then it wont be driving in a straight line much anyway hahahah but it also doesnt play much more a part in "self steer" than toe in.

i say just de-power you steering rack. its free, would provide way better response and would also eliminate all of your PS problems. Manual steering FTW.
1987 SE V6 - Gone
2004 Mazda RX8 GT - Gone
2003 Subaru WRX - Gone
1997 Mazda Miata - SOLD!
2003 Nissan 350Z - Gone
1989 RHD RB25 S13 - Gone, thank god
1989 two tone SR coupe because s12s are dumb

Offline CamInHead

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
  • Posts: 614
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #10 on: 08:03:49 AM / 06-Nov-11 »
Assuming those figures are accurate 4 degrees castor and a little toe-in or out won't prevent the wheel from pulling off lock. You'd need atleast a degree of toe in either direction to interfere with self centering. I haven't tried mine in anger but I have all new suspension, steering and alignment kit, none of which have been calibrated, and it still self-centers even when just being pushed around the carpark - except when the steering goes over centre (spaced tie-rods and removed the lower arm lock stops) but that's only in the last 10% of lock or so.

Did the alignment dude measure SAI/KPI ? I imagine it's quite high given the camber but at the moment I doubt the problem is alignment.
« Last Edit: 08:04:58 AM / 06-Nov-11 by CamInHead »

Offline Ju_S12_Turbo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #11 on: 12:53:09 AM / 07-Nov-11 »
No the car Returns to center just fine. In the first post I explain what I mean by self steering lol
« Last Edit: 02:08:44 AM / 07-Nov-11 by Ju_S12_Turbo »

Offline Jay

  • Now v3.0.14 rev. C... Cowbell included!
  • Moderators
  • S12 Guru
  • *****
  • Location: Calumet, Mi
  • Posts: 5,543
  • Vehicle: 1989 BMW 3 Series
  • ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้༼ ຈل͜ຈ༽ส็็็็็็à¹â€
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #12 on: 01:00:22 AM / 07-Nov-11 »
Watch after 1:30. That's what he's trying to describe. Letting the car and momentum do half the work instead of CONSTANTLY having to steer it. Or trying and just having it spin right the hell out because it can't keep up.

[youtube]7hOMesJ9jZk[/youtube]

Quote from: David B
i like gay porn. but i dont post that in my sig links.

Offline Ju_S12_Turbo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #13 on: 02:08:49 AM / 07-Nov-11 »
Thanks Jay. Yes that is what I mean.

Offline CamInHead

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
  • Posts: 614
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #14 on: 09:45:19 AM / 07-Nov-11 »
Okay, my logic was right even if my reasons for it weren't lol. The principles are the same :)
I'd be inclined to try less camber and more castor personally though.
« Last Edit: 09:46:07 AM / 07-Nov-11 by CamInHead »

Offline taktics702

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Location: Las Vegas, NV USA
  • Posts: 196
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #15 on: 02:22:18 PM / 15-Nov-11 »
My car use to do the same thing where I had to Manually countersteer after turning just to get it to go straight.  I got an alignment done and didn't solve anything.  I replaced the Steering rack bushings to brand new stock OEM bushings and it solved my problem.  Since you are using new bushings already then I don't know.  I'm not sure but if your bushings are not the stock ones then it may be a problem.  The bushings were a suuuuuppperr tight fit on the rack as they are 2 separate pieces to fit on there.

Offline Ju_S12_Turbo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #16 on: 04:00:57 PM / 17-Nov-11 »
Update, I put a front sway on (oversized S13) and it made my car much easier to drift. I was having to much fun to check if the car was self steering or not but it was 100x easy to turn the wheel mid drift, enough so that I was not thinking about turning the wheel.  As far as my bushings go taktics, they are way better then oem and were a perfect fit, I got them from a guy that makes nice bushings for S12's www.MMR-direct.com

Offline CamInHead

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
  • Posts: 614
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #17 on: 04:41:18 PM / 17-Nov-11 »
MMR make good shit but they/he had some issues with taking money and not proividing the shizzle. That was a couple of years ago and I've twice had stuff fired to the UK no problem. :)

Offline Ju_S12_Turbo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #18 on: 05:16:45 AM / 28-Nov-11 »
Ok, so a little update plus some thoughts. 

I took it out drifting the other night (Big ass parking parking for testing) the car does slightly self steer, but it just doesn't go fast enough. once again everything including, but not limited to, bushing, tie-rods, steering rack, alingment, wheels and sway bar are good.

Only thing I am considering as of right now is the power steering pump. I have a bunch of 4x4 friends and they told me to drill out the flow valve (something like that at least) so I google'd it and saw this http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.com/powersteering.html  So is there anything like that on these cars?

Offline Ju_S12_Turbo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Car not self steering (info inside)
« Reply #19 on: 01:30:26 AM / 21-Apr-12 »
Random bumb, after installing the cage it did get slightly better but still no HARD flick meaning the wheel did move on its own, but just not that fast.  Also drifted a mostly stock SE (lowering springs) wheel flicks awesome, So its not because of the heavier Vg30. Sooooooo Now I am a little lost lol. Still haven't gotten a new Power steering pump, so I think that is the only thing left
« Last Edit: 01:31:41 AM / 21-Apr-12 by Ju_S12_Turbo »