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Author Topic: Is the S12 and westernized JDM culture "hipster"?  (Read 3465 times)

Offline Does it moo?

Is the S12 and westernized JDM culture "hipster"?
« on: 07:29:54 PM / 25-Aug-15 »
Right. A thought that just crossed my mind. The S13, S14 & S15 are inconceivably popular drift/toy cars, but you rarely see the S12 even at grassroots events, yet they're practically free. The chassie is flawed compared to the newer models, but since the S platform is very Lego-y the possibilities are the same as any other S car. If you live in a country where engine swaps are legal, people should go nuts over it. I suspect the CA18ET (at least where I live) and its steep showroom price cemented an "all-show-no-go", yuppie-ish reputation, which makes it a perfect "ironic" car to mod. It has a big fanbase and is like a well-guarded secret, just like other hipster phenomena. Hell, even old Toyota Starlets in bad condition are getting way expensive now. The S12 is a headturner, people gather around it when I park... And it's not like we're starved for eye candy here (on top of my head there's an F40, no less than THREE Skyline GT-R R32, A Renault 5 Turbo, '69 Charger Hemi, Buick GSX, lots of random JDM imports, etc etc... these are some the rarer ones I see on the road from time to time...not bad for a town with 60.000 inhabitants). So I'm astonished that people come up to ME and ask what car my rustbucket is, and keep asking question for 10 minutes... So it flies well below the radar but consistently sparks interest in all its dented primer-blotched glory. The serious money-pit S12 builds are breathtaking, IMO much more original than most S13> monsters. That goes for the every-day S12 builds I've seen here as well. Contrary to most S13s there's a lot more creativity here despite (or thanks to?) the lack of bolt-on parts.

This got me thinking about the popular western take on "JDM" in general, found in the US, Aus/NZ and Europe. Tacky, ironic stickers everywhere, such as "Do you even drift, bro?", "U mad?" or (I'm actually sporting this myself), "Ballin' on a budget" *. Cheap knockoff SSR, Work and Volk wheels. Even though they originated in Japan; dazzling, fluorescent wheels could possibly be considered "ironic" too. Because they're quite ugly on plain cars tbh. Ugly, but cool if done right. Like Naoki Nakamura & Team Burst.

Now I'm not a hipster, I got my S12 cuz it was cheap, fast and I still love it to bits. But a while ago I worked with a group of these pretentious little rascals, and as a car guy I thought "what would they drive if they were interested in cars and wanted an affordable drifter/RWD racer that stand out?". It would be Japanese because authenticy is important for them. The Isuzu Piazza and Suzuki Cappuccino are a strong contenders, but parts are scarce. I pretty much narrowed it down** to 1970s Japanese family cars such as the Daihatsu Charmant and Toyota Corolla E70 but also the Mazda MX-5/Miata NA (because many have a prejudice towards them) AAAND the Nissan S12. Even the Z31 seem more popular.

Oh that's enough brainfarting for tonight. Thoughts? Additions to the list?



* = YEAH DUDE! UNEMPLOYMENT RACE CAR!


** = Based on cars that were sold in my part of the world. YMMV, obviously. RWD 1980s Volvos (200, 700 & 900 series) and older BMWs make up the bulk of drift/go-fast-toy-cars around here.

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Offline JonB

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Re: Is the S12 and westernized JDM culture "hipster"?
« Reply #1 on: 09:22:46 PM / 25-Aug-15 »
I have no idea what your talking about. Schiz mentioned what a hipster was not long ago - I think he posted a diagram chart type thing. West coast!? - what's that, the state with the tight emissions that no one in the other states wants a car from? Or is it those trend setter car guys on TV with lamb chops, tattoos, and custom clothes?

It came down for me like this; I got my liscense back in 2000. A lot of the roads here are really windy. Som people like spirited driving on the straights, but I've always searched for the tightest, windiest, most treacherous roads on can find. I've had several v8 Rwds and several fwd 4s, and I felt that the light drive train mass and good balance of a rwd 4 is where it would be. I didn't even know what an S12 was. I wanted a celica rwd coupe or pinto. If found my first of 3 S12s, peeked at the drivetrain layout, and I bought it.

I don't have a stile; I shave my own hair because I'm cheap, I buy new clothes when they wear out, because I'm cheap, I'm at work, or working at home, or vegging alone. I have no scene, I have no style, nor do I waste much time thinking about it. I know that I like my boot cut jeans that I can't seem to find anymore and I hate those tight ones they sell now.  If anything I'm grungy because I just don't care to much and I want to be comfortable.

After over a decade, and three s12s, I can tell you I like the car, and I don't know that it fits anywhere; they've been drifted, dragged, road raced, rallied, and just cruised - it's a car, it operates on physics principals, and it doesn't know anything about people. Around here there are almost no S12s - I would be shocked if I saw another one in my day to day life.

Offline SchizophrenicMC

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Re: Is the S12 and westernized JDM culture "hipster"?
« Reply #2 on: 09:40:22 PM / 25-Aug-15 »
S13s, S14s, and S15s are only popular drift cars because they got hype from various media appearances, and because of the initial hype, they eventually became hyped as drift cars because they're drift cars. The S12 never had that happen. It was never a hero car, it was never in any movies, cartoons, or comics. It was just an econo-sport car from the 80s. Same as the AE86 in almost every way. Only the Corolla Sports got popularized as a drift car for the same reason as the S13.

Which brings us to today: S12s never really built a following early in life like the hella-JDM-tyte-bro cars we think of. And they weren't made in the huge numbers that cars like the Honda Prelude and Acura Integra- 2 cars that never got media popularity, but remain popular with young people- were, so they don't have the mass appeal of being a common first car. So the people who own S12s today are a motley bunch of people with a few reasons for buying them, usually centered on how cheap they are relative to their successors. (With the exception of the old guys who bought them decades ago, or bought them for nostalgia because they had family with them decades ago) Lots of drift guys here in S12s because S12s are cheaper than S13s. Hell, even I bought my first S12 because the S13 I was going to buy got sold the day before I had the cash.

Of course, the fact that they're Japanese has a lot to do with their continued popularity, especially in the drift scene. For even cheaper than an S12, you could get a Foxbody GT and strip it out and have a V8-powered sideways tire-smoker that makes even the S13 look bare for aftermarket support. But that's not JDM bro. Which is the kind of thing I don't like about the yuppies in the drift scene.

They're all about half-assery, but they won't buy a Ford.
Nah, quoted for future use because not only is it lame and old, but it's a direct link to Schizo posting up homoerotic menswear fanfiction.
Quote
zololn: wheres the check engine light on the s12?

Offline Does it moo?

Re: Is the S12 and westernized JDM culture "hipster"?
« Reply #3 on: 12:30:38 AM / 26-Aug-15 »
JonB, hipsters are basically elitists who solely like things unknown to the general public, only to drop it when it goes mainstream. They generally sport unwieldy facial hair, have a weird fetish for retro AND bleeding edge technology at the same time (plausible scenario:someone bringing an old typewriter instead of a laptop to work in public places while twittering about it on whatever the newest smartphone that month happens to be). Their preferred mode of transportation tends to be as preposterous as everything else in their lives. As they constantly try to out-hipster one another with even more obscure and strange doodads, things change fast. A few years ago they all rode fixie bikes, which is simply a bike with a fixed hub and no breaks. Yup. But that changed to the even more cumbersome fad of so called tall bikes, which is exactly what it sounds like but I don't think it caught on. Their most common rationale for doing stupid shit like this, is that they're "ironic". Hipsters are often associated with t-shirts printed with colourful, slightly witty but pointless slogans similar to "JDM stickers" found everywhere on the net. Again, the reason for this is that they "know it's tacky" and that they're "wearing it ironically". Hipsters are rarely associated with cars, but at least a few of them must have an interest in it. And since EVERYTHING in their lives seem to revolve around owning the most awkward, loathed or unknown of any given object and using it daily, I couldn't help thinking about what they'd drive. Hope that cleared things up. (Not all of them are this extreme, but surprisingly many...and they all deny their condition.)


On another note, I can see why you'd want a true RHD JDM S13. They're lighter and sharper since the Japanese market isn't concerned about suspension stiffness or luxury, and many people that do import them now grew up watching stuff like Initial D and D1. I get it. The JDM S13 and its successors are also praised for their predictability when pushed, even stock. The vast amount of spares make them cheap to wreck, too. But you're right that any car can achieve the very same result with upgrades. This (fake) sense of individualism in the drift scene is pretty interesting... Most of them drive the same type of car, yet they try to stand out as much as possible with how they modify it.

I'm with you though, I didn't even know I wanted an S12 until I saw the ad for one nearby. Though where I live, they're at the absolute BOTTOM of second hand pricing. A Volvo 240 in the same condition, with the same stuff my Nissan had would easily sell for €4000+ and an S13 €7000... My S12 was €1000 and he advertised it for like three months. I've seen near-mint condition stock ones go for less than what I paid. I still find it hard to grip why this is. Yeah the AE86 would possibly be in the same spot were it not for Ueo Katsuhiro and Initial D, but how can one explain the sudden used market price inflation for ALL older Japanese RWD cars except the S12? And it's not just Toyotas like the Corolla E70 and Starlet KP71, any RWD Mazda 323 for example gets sold instantly regardless of asking price. I mean, who'd pay €2000 for a rotted 323 station wagon that last passed inspection over a decade ago? Might be a regional thing, but that scarcely unboggles my mind.
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Offline SchizophrenicMC

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Re: Is the S12 and westernized JDM culture "hipster"?
« Reply #4 on: 05:09:21 AM / 26-Aug-15 »
I just want to point out, at least for the hatchback model, JDM and USDM variants differ only in engine and emissions gear when comparing base models directly. This does make the USDM car slightly heavier, due to the KA24DE being a large iron-block engine, but not as much as you'd think since the SR20DET is equipped with a turbocharger and all that that entails. Spring rates, shock design, interior junk- it's all identical on the base models. JDM models are less likely to have sunroofs and Super HICAS, and Cruise Control was a USDM only option, but the take rates on most options was similar or higher for Japan. Not to mention they actually had a lot more dealer-installed options than USDM cars. With that said, JDM coupe models are lighter than USDM coupes by a long shot, thanks to the smaller, less-complex fixed-headlight front end. Actually, JDM S13s have always been FMVSS compliant, thanks to the Substantially Similar clause not requiring drive side to match. Because really, the only differences between the cars were in the engines.

I think this whole JDM thing is just a mix of fanbois and hipsters. Dumb kids who never did anything all the way in their life, and use whatever excuse they can to do something halfway and not feel bad about being too lazy to complete something. Kids who drop a project halfway through because they don't have the patience or money to fix whatever problem has come up, and never planned on getting their car far enough to give it finishing touches anyway. Kids who want to feel "different" by buying the same car everyone else does and doing the same bullshit everyone else gets halfway through.

I really should not get so many dropped jaws for my bone-stock S13 and its intact interior and uncracked dashboard. I REALLY should not get so many "so do you drift it bro"s for my bone-stock S13 with its straight body and clean paint. It's like a whole generation forgot what nice things were, and stopped caring about how to keep things nice. I blame Gen X for raising Gen Y to be useless.
Nah, quoted for future use because not only is it lame and old, but it's a direct link to Schizo posting up homoerotic menswear fanfiction.
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zololn: wheres the check engine light on the s12?

Offline Does it moo?

Re: Is the S12 and westernized JDM culture "hipster"?
« Reply #5 on: 07:21:35 AM / 26-Aug-15 »
Oh, ok. I was under the impression it was the other way around and that Super HICAS was standard on the USDM models. My bad, must have mixed it up with the cruise control. About the weight, isn't the S13 coupe like more than 200 lbs lighter than the hatch? I know SilEightys became a thing because of the lighter front-end, but does it really make THAT much difference?

Completely stock and well-kept S13s are a rare sight though, I'd probably take an extra look too if I ever saw one. Those who are not held together by duct tape tend to be trailer queens.
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Offline SchizophrenicMC

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Re: Is the S12 and westernized JDM culture "hipster"?
« Reply #6 on: 08:07:45 AM / 26-Aug-15 »
Sil80s weren't a thing because of weight, they were a thing because front-end collisions are common on mountain passes, and Silvia body parts are cheaper than 180SX parts in Japan.

The S13 coupe isn't really all that much lighter either. It's within 100lbs based on what I've read. A bare-bones CA18 S13 coupe is over 2700lbs, but a maxed-out USDM S13 hatch is around 2900lbs. Super HICAS was anything but standard, though. It was only available as part of an option package for the SE model only, and given that it added a few thousand to the price, it wasn't even particularly common. Cruise control had a similar take rate from my understanding, but was only even available in the US.  (Even Canada didn't officially get it)
Nah, quoted for future use because not only is it lame and old, but it's a direct link to Schizo posting up homoerotic menswear fanfiction.
Quote
zololn: wheres the check engine light on the s12?