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Author Topic: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges  (Read 2984 times)

Offline weitrhino

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Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« on: 02:31:36 PM / 12-Aug-16 »
When my steering rack took a dump I also discovered my right from strut was blown and had leaked its oil. In for a penny already I decided I'd just pull the struts out and replace both inserts. After getting the assembly out from the passenger side I discovered the need for a 50mm wrench to remove the gland packing nut securing the insert (cartridge) inside the strut assembly. It's very thin, perhaps 3mm wide and designed to sit flush on top of the assembly tube. It was tight or perhaps partially seized and channel lock pliers would not open quite large enough to get a square grip on it.

So I ordered one of these through eBay:



Of course it didn't fit right either so I had to file out the inside edges to make it work. Here's what the OEM strut assembly looks like with the gland pack nut removed.



You've got to force out any remaining oil inside the assembly tube and pull the cartridge out, then drain the housing. The new KYB cartridges I ordered are supposed to be installed without any oil inside the assembly housing. Here's a pic of the new KYB cartridge installed fully into the assembly tube, and herein lies the problem.




Note how the new cartridge sticks out of the tube? Now compare that to the first pic with the OEM cartridge inside. I've been in touch directly with KYB to verify they sent the correct cartridges for the S12 and they confirmed part number 365031 is correct and then kicked my request to their technical department. I'm waiting for them to get back with me.

With the KYB 365031 here's how far the gland packing nut with washer goes by hand before bottoming out against the top of the cartridge.



Obviously this is not ideal as it leaves me dead in the water.






« Last Edit: 01:10:44 PM / 23-Nov-18 by weitrhino »

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Offline weitrhino

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #1 on: 10:13:20 AM / 16-Aug-16 »
The KYB customer service rep told me last Friday one of their tech engineers would contact me about this. As of Monday night no one had but Tuesday morning I received the following:

Good Morning
Please ensure that all liquid and any obstructions have been removed from the cartridge housing.
KYB cartridge will not install flush with the housing but the gland nut will go no more than ¾ of the way in.
This is normal for our product is [sic] you would like to get our gland nut to go on further you can file some of cap
on the bottom down but do not remove or break off cap.
 
 
Thank you
Tech


So that's KYBs solution for their "direct fit" strut insert. What a load of crap! :glarestraight:

« Last Edit: 02:28:35 PM / 16-Aug-16 by weitrhino »

Offline Wonderingraven

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #2 on: 10:32:02 AM / 16-Aug-16 »
When I removed mine, I just used a pipe wrench and worked like a charm.  Even the 280zx Tokiko's also stuck out 1/8 of an inch and the cap didn't fully screw in all the way either, I just went with it and moved on. I will have to check but I think the KYB on another hatch of mine has the same issue as well.

I definitely want to see the solution for this.   
« Last Edit: 10:33:00 AM / 16-Aug-16 by Wonderingraven »
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Offline Cajun1guy

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #3 on: 02:11:20 PM / 16-Aug-16 »
Same story here. I just cinched the nut as much as I could and applied some RTV to seal it around the threads. No problems at all, rides great. I would probably be leary if I was wild with the car, drifting and getting air time, but I use as a DD and want it to last.

Offline weitrhino

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #4 on: 02:27:02 PM / 16-Aug-16 »
I'm sorry but that's just poor engineering and there's no excuse for it. How can any company seriously suggest their product is intended to only fit 3/4 of the way? In reality it's 1/2 way at best but to suggest I should grind down the bottom end cap would negate any possible warranty claim and make it impossible to return the product for a refund. All they need to do is design a better gland packing nut to accommodate the extra length.
« Last Edit: 06:35:20 PM / 16-Aug-16 by weitrhino »

Online kelso840

Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #5 on: 02:47:27 PM / 16-Aug-16 »
What's the cross compatibility of that specific replacement part? I'd wager that the item they're telling you to shave is a PERFECT fit in a different model car that sold in higher volume.

Probably doesn't make sense financially to design and manufacture something new for niche use of an otherwise stock item. Or at least, that's how I'd consider it if I were planning to stock that item and list it as S12 compatible. Lazy? Sure, but if they aren't too proud as a business to push that product with knowledge of the situation, maybe I should just be thankful that they're manufacturing a part that in ANY way fits within our stock suspension. Maybe my expectations are just low...

"You mean I can change nothing about this product and list it is applicable to another model vehicle? And the downside is that the top of the strut tube doesn't thread down all the way? That's not too bad.... Let's roll with it and deal with the small volume of niche customers as they appear."

Infrequently driving an s12.

Offline Wonderingraven

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #6 on: 08:23:02 PM / 16-Aug-16 »
I'm sorry but that's just poor engineering and there's no excuse for it.

Indeed, that is why I went s13 front swap other than I had a wheel bearing weld itself the knuckle.
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Offline deucekazoo

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #7 on: 08:26:19 AM / 18-Aug-16 »
I just did mine also. The nut itself is actually 51mm or 2". I could not find one reasonably priced so I used an air chisel to remove the nut and then adjustable pliers to put it back on. I had the same issue as you with the nut not going all the way down. I did not like the thread engagement with the washer so I removed the washer and just used the new nut. We will see if I have any issues.

Offline weitrhino

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #8 on: 11:42:17 AM / 18-Aug-16 »
It really bugged me with the KYB struts so I sent them back without grinding down the bottom and ordered the equivalent product from Gabriel. Here's what it looks like fully installed in the housing.



I'm not going to try a third company's product for a better fit. This looks to be just how it's going to be. At least with the Gabriel strut insert the nut goes in a little bit more than the KYB so I feel a little better about that...for what it's worth.
« Last Edit: 12:43:46 PM / 28-Aug-16 by weitrhino »

Offline weitrhino

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #9 on: 12:50:19 PM / 28-Aug-16 »
So I finally got both struts in place and the steering rack outer tie rods installed. The toe is predictably off but that's what alignment shops are for, nevertheless a test spin was in order. So down the driveway and around the corner I go but when i get to the next turn I discover I have no brakes. Zero. No amount of furious pumping made any difference at all. I got her down into second gear and took it easy around the block, fortunately there was no traffic to contend with but WTH? My brakes had always been excellent prior to parking her in the garage.

I get nothing from the pedal whether the engine is running or not, no leaks and the reservoir remains at the full line. The only thing I can think is the piston inside the master cylinder is stuck in a forward position. Anybody second guess this reasoning?

Offline rednucleus

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #10 on: 03:19:31 PM / 28-Aug-16 »
Sounds like a failed master.

Offline JonB

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #11 on: 09:14:14 PM / 28-Aug-16 »
I usually just put mine in a bench vice, and turn the whole strut.

Just did kyb also - yep, strut pokes up a bit. Mr2 does not.

I put my whole kyb struts in a lathe and turned them down to fit t3 plates. Last time ran mr2, and didn't want to run them again.

Also was going to reuse my kyb agx rears(parted last car), but they were junk compaired to the 32 year old shocks currently on the car, so I just put those back on.


Offline deucekazoo

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #12 on: 07:39:15 AM / 29-Aug-16 »
So I finally got both struts in place and the steering rack outer tie rods installed. The toe is predictably off but that's what alignment shops are for, nevertheless a test spin was in order. So down the driveway and around the corner I go but when i get to the next turn I discover I have no brakes. Zero. No amount of furious pumping made any difference at all. I got her down into second gear and took it easy around the block, fortunately there was no traffic to contend with but WTH? My brakes had always been excellent prior to parking her in the garage.

I get nothing from the pedal whether the engine is running or not, no leaks and the reservoir remains at the full line. The only thing I can think is the piston inside the master cylinder is stuck in a forward position. Anybody second guess this reasoning?

Bleed your brakes. I had the same thing just happen to me. Do the LR, RR, RF and then the LF. Then try it again and see if you have a pedal with the car on.
Also its a good practice to always make sure you have a brake pedal before the car moves. It's something easy to forget when you have a manual.

Offline weitrhino

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #13 on: 04:54:06 PM / 04-Sep-16 »
So the new master cylinder is here but those damn hard line connectors are seized. I've been hitting them with Liquid Wrench and hit them with a torch. Even my 5 sided line wrench is rounding the corners and I don't want to ruin these fittings and get into replacing hardline.

Any secrets to share for removing these damn things??!?

Offline deucekazoo

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #14 on: 07:52:08 AM / 06-Sep-16 »
Tighten them first till you hear a pop, then you should be able to loosen them.
I know it sounds weird but that is the secret. You are tightening something you want to loosen.

Offline weitrhino

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #15 on: 11:53:13 AM / 06-Sep-16 »
interesting.....
Post Merge
No progress was made today. These line nuts just won't budge and are now deteriorating to various degrees.

So I can only see 2 options from here: cut the lines and buy new nuts and a good flaring tool, or cut the lines and replace them from the master cylinder to the next connection point with prefabricated lines available at the parts store, and rent their bending tool.
« Last Edit: 04:44:56 PM / 06-Sep-16 by weitrhino »

Offline mc

Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #16 on: 04:57:23 PM / 06-Sep-16 »
...vise-grips....get a good bite and it will break free.

Offline S12_Lifer

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #17 on: 10:38:34 PM / 06-Sep-16 »
Agreed!  A standard size vice grip always does the job for me.

Offline weitrhino

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #18 on: 05:30:22 PM / 07-Sep-16 »
Normally I'd agree with you guys but in this case.....no. These things are insanely tight and vice grips are simply ruining the nut. I bought new fittings today and will cut these lines and re-flare them.

Fingers crossed.

Offline Wonderingraven

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Re: Stock Front Suspension KYB Strut Cartridges
« Reply #19 on: 04:14:27 PM / 09-Sep-16 »

When I don't have the correct size, I use one of these instead of the vice grips solution. Overkill but it doesn't strip the nut.
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