Well, ain't that a downer...

[Does it moo?]

I'm guessing many of you have prolly seen pics of this ravishing JDM 200SX coupe:











This particular car convinced me that the S12 is cool on its own merits, that it isn't just a bloated AE86 or a lesser S13, so I have a bit of a soft spot for it. I recently watched some of Noriyaro's videos that I had missed, and then he showed this...



(Source)

The video was posted in May last year. Dunno what condition it's in now, but it went from being one of the most ballin' S12 out there to look worse than mine in only a few years. It's sad to see such a well-kept specimen with that much loving work put into it being neglected.

I don't know if this has been posted here before since I've been awol for three or four years (death in the family, engine blew up, crippling depression, unhealthy ways of coping, etc...when it rains it pours, huh...). On a lighter note, here's another picture of a Suzuki Alto next to said 200SX and a hatchback:



I used to own a Suzuki Alto (not a Works as in the pic though, just the regular FWD NA version with a blistering 45 hp) but sold it to buy the Silvia. Bit of a weird coincidence since neither of the two are very common, not where I live anyway.

[SchizophrenicMC]

This is the sad truth of the Japanese Shaken. Eventually it gets too expensive to keep the car on the road, and it's not even worth selling because demand is nonexistent thanks to that cost. So the cars get left in fields, to rot under the cedar pollen for all time.

[Does it moo?]

Yeah, makes you wonder how many rare cars are just shoved away and left sitting over there... How much is the Shaken for non-new cars anyway? I remember hearing $2000-ish and that it lasts for two years? It would suck to be a car person there... But It's good for us, I guess, since grey-import JDM cars are dirt cheap compared to used European or Japanese EUDM cars of similar or even lesser specs, and a lot more mileage.

Japan is a weird place, the people are pretty secluded from the rest of the world and seem content with it. How many Japanese people are actually aware that their junk cars, which effectively only has sentimental value there, may start bidding wars among foreigners?

That 200SX is a very serious build and had it been auctioned for export while in a presentable state it surely would've made a decent profit. Although the S12 isn't the S-chassis people "want", it still has this weird inherit street cred that the S13/14 need to work a lot harder for. Also, not everyone looking for imports want the "cliché" cars (like the Skyline GT-R, AE86, S15, etc). Where I live we have lots of JDM imports and on top of my head, the less obvious include a Mitsu Evo IX estate, Nissan Stagea RS-Four V, Mitsubishi Legnum VR4 (yeah, people fucking love wagons here), Toyota Mark II (or Chaser, can't tell them apart), a four-door Impreza STI Ver 4 Type-RA (that I almost bought), a Nissan Cefiro A31 and so, so many Skyline GTS-T. And that's just my tiny corner of the world, so there's gotta be an international market for pretty much all performance oriented JDM cars.

But on the other hand, perhaps he was just too fond of it to sell it and hoped to save up to get it street legal. What ever the case, it's a bummer.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Japanese enthusiasts are very much aware of what their cars are worth overseas- importers are constantly on the lookout for in-demand cars and making offers on the ones they find. Issue is, the biggest market with the most demand and the most money to burn on that demand, prohibits imports until a vehicle is at least 25 years old. And by the time that 25 year mark comes to pass, only certain cars are worth anything. Five years ago, R32s, even GT-Rs, were worth a relative pittance, because every viable market was saturated. Canada had had the cars for 10 years already, and the rest of the world was over 20 years into R32 ownership. Then 2014 rolled around and the first R32s became legal, and prices have skyrocketed since, with cars that would have been worth $5k, selling for $20k now, before ever seeing a shipping crate.

R33s are legal now, 34s and S15s are coming soon, not to mention spiking demand for various mid-90s kei cars. Those cars are starting bidding wars, and owners are starting to clean up their semi-abandoned examples for sale. S12s, though, those were sold here, and they've never been worth much. The ones that are left are doomed to rot in fields, yards, sheds, and co-ops around the Japanese countryside.

[BOSSMAN]

I have seen a few S12 on Yahoo Auction Japan and they were asking quite a few $$$$$.  I wouldn't be surprised with all those natural disasters happening in Japan the past few years this particular S12 ( and the  car sitting beside it) felt victim to the fury of mother nature and became insurance right-offs.

[JonB]

There's probably Japanese guys, googling crunchy Camaros rotting away in the states, and saying the same things.

[Does it moo?]

I have seen a few S12 on Yahoo Auction Japan and they were asking quite a few $$$$$.  I wouldn't be surprised with all those natural disasters happening in Japan the past few years this particular S12 ( and the  car sitting beside it) felt victim to the fury of mother nature and became insurance right-offs.

Interesting. What condition were they in, were they modified or stock? You're probably right about the natural disasters, it kinda does look like it was flooded.

There's probably Japanese guys, googling crunchy Camaros rotting away in the states, and saying the same things.

Probably. It's always sad when iconic cars get left to rot. Reminds me of how the survivor Charger from Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry (objectively the best car chase movie ever!) ended up in someone's backyard where it's been sitting for decades.

[JonB]

Well, that Charger is a gut wrencher. Any second gen Charger pulls at my heart strings though

[BOSSMAN]

Most used S12 on yahoo auction and used Japanese cars for export sites I’ve seen are stock or close to stock.   The reason is that in order to meet the 25 year or older  import rule for USA the car must be stock or close to stock.

[Does it moo?]

Most used S12 on yahoo auction and used Japanese cars for export sites I’ve seen are stock or close to stock.   The reason is that in order to meet the 25 year or older  import rule for USA the car must be stock or close to stock.

Yeah, same here in the EU. It's not very strictly enforced though as long as the car looks somewhat stock at a glance. At least in my country...and Ireland from what I hear. Our import laws are very lax, and in combination with an extremely specific and confusing set of vehicle inspection regulations (eg. from 1986 onward all cars factory fitted with catalytic converters need to have them mounted even on aftermarket exhausts, but as long as the car was first registered before 1989 it's completely legal to gut, bore and line the interior of the cat with exhaust pipe...), most cars are just waved through. Without a factory spec sheet, the assigned inspector is required to have extensive knowledge of not only the model and its trim levels, but also the different factory options and standard equipment for each year, so notes such as "driver side airbag exempt" in the registration papers of '00s JDM imports with aftermarket steering wheels aren't uncommon.

Import laws in the US are enforced with ridiculous pettiness, but on the upside at least you don't have to deal with an anal retentive vehicle inspector once a year.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Most used S12 on yahoo auction and used Japanese cars for export sites I’ve seen are stock or close to stock.   The reason is that in order to meet the 25 year or older  import rule for USA the car must be stock or close to stock.

That's patently false. In the US, once a vehicle reaches 25 years from its model year or date of manufacture, whichever is later, it is exempt from import restrictions, regardless of condition or content of factory-installed components.

The reason most S12s you see on auction sites are stock is, most S12s are still stock. Most Japanese cars don't get modified to the degree that old Japanese cars in America do, likely for similar cultural reasons that most old American cars don't get heavily modified.

[BOSSMAN]

That's patently false. In the US, once a vehicle reaches 25 years from its model year or date of manufacture, whichever is later, it is exempt from import restrictions, regardless of condition or content of factory-installed components.

The reason most S12s you see on auction sites are stock is, most S12s are still stock. Most Japanese cars don't get modified to the degree that old Japanese cars in America do, likely for similar cultural reasons that most old American cars don't get heavily modified.

Well, yes and no.  What I remembered my US importer friend said was they will bring the car as close to stock as possible for inspection then the car can be modified to what ever degree after.  This is one reason why they like to find cars that are near stock to import to save the hassles.  Another reason is that the car will need to meet their own "shaken" inspection.

[JonB]

I was looking for pics and listings for a couple of skyline gts that i saw for sale, and were heavily modified. So modded cars do come over. I couldnt find the links - maybe ill look later.

But i think its like most car sales. People dont want the modded ones for the most part. Even when I intend to modify a car, i look for one thats unmolested. Most people do.

Theres good mods and bad mods. Better chance of getting an un hacked if its a close to stock as possible. This is why if you intend to sale a car - dont personalize it

[iceageg]

A friend of mine just bought an R32 from an importer and had it shipped here to Denver.  Only stock parts on that car are the dash, and maybe the rear seats.  Likely the windows too.  Not much else that could be mistaken as stock at a glance.  He had no problems getting it registered and on the road.  Just one example but its certainly an example to the other extreme from stock.

[SchizophrenicMC]

The only reason why stock or near-stock cars are preferred is, they fetch a higher value than modded in most cases. And when your business is predicated on turning a profit on the sale of decades-old cars, it's a much more attractive proposition to buy the car you can sell for the most margin. Nobody burning 25 grand on an imported Skyline wants to pick up the bill for someone else's shortcuts, and it's a lot easier to verify the quality of a car when all of the parts on that car were installed by Nissan.

There's no legal or inspection-based limitations on OEM compliance or even roadworthiness when importing a car into the US, once it turns 25. And sure enough you see plenty of legally imported cars that were modified extensively by their Japanese owners, up on the market today. They just don't fetch as much money.

Here's one for sale right now:

[Does it moo?]

I can't remember anyone racing an R33 in the 2016 GP. Did that R33 really race in the D1GP series or have the seller confused it with D1SL (as in, you know, "street legal")? The latter not only need to pass vehicle inspection, but also have to be deemed 'daily drivable' by the D1 inspectors, while modern D1GP cars are as streetable at their Formula D counterparts. I might sound nit-picky here but that's akin to confusing a Rallycross car with Group R rally car.

Not that it's impossible to restore, but from what I can tell by the tiny thumbnails, it seems conspicuously D1SL compliant. The interior appears untouched from the windshield up to the B-pillar, it has stock gauges instead of a dash logger and perhaps most telling, just a mildly tuned original RB25DET instead of a more potent and reliable swap, not to mention that 450 hp is very much D1SL territory. Furthermore, it looks like the stereo has been only recently removed (last I head, D1SL rules require a functioning stereo) since the mount hasn't been patched up.

If my Jimmies weren't already a bit rustled by how that ad seemingly tries to sell a legacy that just isn't there (correct me if I'm wrong, though fairly sure I'm not), that whole "eBay china junk" thing did little to unrustle them. I'll let you know eBay china junk  is　ａｗï½...ï½"ｏｍï½..., Mr. Seller guy. I'm all about that Bor-Chuann Racing and DickAss Auto, boiii! So in other words:

[SchizophrenicMC]

I don't know if it actually competed in anything, but the car is real and exists in Dallas, and was imported legally due to its age exemption, in spite of being significantly far from stock, because that shit doesn't matter to CBP once the car is officially Old As Shit Dawg.

Which is the only point I'm trying to make here.

[Does it moo?]

Yeah, I mostly got hung up on the part that reads "campaigned in the 2016 Japan D1 Grand Prix series". I got nothing but love for the car itself, but It sounds like he's trying to artificially inflate the price. Dunno what the market is like in the 'States, but over here no one would pay $20k+ for a GTS. That's straight up GT-R money.

Regarding legality, I've also heard horror stories of Americans trying to register imported vehicles of age. My immediate thought is that, since each state have their own plate design and thus seem to exert some limited self-governance, could it be that state laws are in conflict with federal ones? Or perhaps a case of your internationally (in)famous DMV trying their darndest to ruin people's day at any chance?

[SchizophrenicMC]

First off, these cars have only just become legal to import in the US within the last 4 years, so prices remain inflated, particularly as the number of available chassis diminishes. GT-Rs fetch 25-30, and up in some cases, but a GTS with a story can easily get 20.

As for horror stories, they probably didn't have their paperwork in order, or the car wasn't quite old enough. Lots of guys have tried importing cars before their time, but even if you import something legally, you might still run into issues registering the vehicle if you didn't get all your paperwork squared away. That's why it's advisable to have an importer bring your car in. They know what legal hoops to jump through to get something here in a state where you can put it on the road.

As for state registration requirements, states aren't allowed to have restrictions exceeding US import requirements, in terms of registering cars, with the exception of emissions requirements. What that really boils down to in effect is, in California, Nevada, New York, and a handful of other states, you may be required to install newer emissions equipment in order to bring the car in line with regulations. (US EPA exempts emissions on vehicles at 21 years)

If someone can't register their grey import, I'm going to lean on it being some cock-up on their part, 9 times out of 10.