Ca18det Vs Sr20det

Started by craigcd, 01:25:05 AM / 16-Jun-04

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craigcd

Allright as the days grow longer and i am still waiting for my CA18DET to arrive. Its been a month and still waiting, hopefully this week!!

Well i am having second thoughts, should i go SR instead? The problem seems to be that there is little after market support for the CA which isnt a big deal, then comes the fact that the engines are older and may require a rebuild very soon(which is kinda a hassle due to tha availability of parts), the turbo is older. So its more a colaboration of small things that are making me doubt my choice.

Is it that more of a complicated swap to move up to a SR? Or is it basically the same.

1) What would i have to to transmission wise, will the CA20E tranny work? Will i need a custom drive shaft, and use the SR tranny?????

2) I would get a uncut wiring harness but how difficult would the wiring be, any significant difference from the CA wiring interms of difficulty?

3) I am sure i would need an electric fan, would i need a bigger rad to accomadate the engine?

What else am i missing that will be a major hurdle?

I can get a SR for around $2100 CAD(i think) so about 500 more than my CA.


Any feedback will help!

Thanks in advance
Craig

salps12

basically the SR has alot more parts than the CA. But not turbo wise ;-)

The SR is alot stronger internally and also alot faster stock. Mod for mod the SR will be cheaper and faster.

Its just can you get a custom gearbox mount and tailshaft end made up as the CA20E box will not go together with the SR engine.

The way I saw it was... 200+rwkw is better to go with the SR as that can be done on stock internals. 160rwkw and under is cheaper to go with CA as the engine bolts onto everything like stock!

But really... if neb has an sr then the SR MUST BE  :lame:  :lick:
[span style=\'color:RoyalBlue\']Gazelle: CA18DET[/span]
S15 T28BB - ARC intercooler - oil cooler w/ remote mount filter - Rb20 AFM - Boxed pod - Hyrbid EBC - HSV 300kw Fuel pump - Xtreme HD Clutch - DBA Slotted Discs w/ f:RB74  r:Comp2 pads - JIC Front coilovers & Rear kyb shocks and kingsprings

[span style=\'color:DeepSkyBlue\']POWER:[/span] unknown (approx 140rwkw)

craigcd

Quote
Its just can you get a custom gearbox mount and tailshaft end made up as the CA20E box will not go together with the SR engine.

Can you elaborate on this? I could use the SR tranny but it would move my shifter back? And i would need a custom driveshaft?

Euroboy

the sr tranny and ca tranny are the same length just diff bellhousings.
they are the same god damn tranny

now lets see

sr vs ca

sr is more expensive-ca is cheaper hence use money to ugrade
sr you will need a bigger turbo oneday-ca same with ca
sr has rocker arms hence 4 lobe cams- ca has true 8 lobe cams

ca revs higher better more freely than any sr any day.
TELL ME AN SR THAT REVS @10500rpm?

internals are somewhat the same both forged pistons with oil squirters. both engines will make tons of power with the right tuning on stock internals.  Guys are reving their ca to 9k on stock bottom end.
ca is belt driven which makes for lesser noise and better revving  over the sr.
YES THERE IS AFTERMARKET SUPPORT FOR CA
jun makes stuff for us, cp racing, arias, hks, greddy
the sr you getting is propably old too for 2100.
so depending the condition you will need to rebuild that too
ca has more thoughts of engineering after it, 2 way intake mani
and never heard of ca chambers detonating, wether sr does have that problem
sr cas 0.2L more but in my opinion the thought money and engineering that\'s behind the ca isn\'t in the sr
did i mentioned that ca is lighter by some 25kg\'s over the sr?
so for the money you saving on the ca you can reach sr output and surpass them by quite a bit
and sr is freaking overrated
every 240 and their cousin have one now
i just wanna shillack them on my light ca.
Well i got a \'87 200sx

salps12

ok they are the same tranny,

DIFFERENT LENGTH!

Why would two S12 ppl have to do the same thing? Heck what do they know?
Neb!

SR is better. PERIOD! Why would you ever rev the car out to 10+thousand neway? The power stops at like 7.5k!

Internals of an SR are proven to withstand 200-220rwkw and like it!
No CA in australia atm is doing that, be lucky to get 180rwkw on stock internals.
The SR has more torque which means more power lower!
MORE SR aftermarket support! Can you get off the shelf CA equal length exhaust manifolds, bigger oil sumps, bigger bolt on intake manifolds, etc.

You put the same mods on a SR and on the CA and the SR will be guaranteed to be 30rwkw more!
Bolt on turbos make more power on the SR, HKS GT-RS only makes something like 180-190rwkw when tuned nice but on an SR it makes 220rwkw. Proven, ahuh sure is!

the small things that make the CA ebtter than the SR are OVERRATED!

Dont get me wrong I love my little CA engine but the fact is, they are NOT the better engine. THEY ARE NOT STRONGER. They ARE NOT as reliable especially when the power rises.

In the end its all about what power you want to make for the cheapest amount of money. Like i said 180+rwkw on stock internals, THE SR IS THE WAY TO GO or even the FJ  :twisted:
[span style=\'color:RoyalBlue\']Gazelle: CA18DET[/span]
S15 T28BB - ARC intercooler - oil cooler w/ remote mount filter - Rb20 AFM - Boxed pod - Hyrbid EBC - HSV 300kw Fuel pump - Xtreme HD Clutch - DBA Slotted Discs w/ f:RB74  r:Comp2 pads - JIC Front coilovers & Rear kyb shocks and kingsprings

[span style=\'color:DeepSkyBlue\']POWER:[/span] unknown (approx 140rwkw)

Euroboy

well
i tend to disagree
go check the detonation on the sr\'s
ca does have aftermarket backing up you just gotta search
yeah sr will have more shit coz it\'s newer but hell if i am running a big t04 big kahuna son that thing would spool untill 5k
and still have 5 k into the spool up
so when the engine is done in the end it goes to money and what you need to do.  
I prefer ca!!!!!!!!
Well i got a \'87 200sx

240kat

Being new to the forum, I realize this may be a bad place to start..but oh well.
The SR is (IMO) among the top three engines to be built out of Japan.  Along with the RB series motors and the 2jz, the sr20 is a powerhouse of a motor.  The CA is a light engine with plenty of potential.  But to get in to 300rwhp area, its just easier with an SR.  End of story, there\'s no question.  Bolt ons and cams have gotton me to 277rwhp.  Umm..I guess thats all.  :shrug:

bartc_j

both have their goods and bads, if you have the $$ and you\'ll need it the sr is the way to go if you have less cash and want descent power 250-300hp the ca is the better choice also the ca will drop right in and you can use the stock tranny the sr is alot more work, so unless you can do all the fabbing yourself i would go sr but 95% of us cant so the ca will be way cheaper and easier to install yourself
Bart
'86 1.8L Turbo

Nebuchernezzer

I did a SR into my car but if i did it all again i\'d go a CA18DET more than likely, far less work less cash so you can do more mods to the CA hehe.  Might not be quite as fast in the end but the effort/$$$/speed ratio is much better hehe.

If looks could kill you'd have eyes like cyanide...
http://www.cardomain.com/id/zeruel

Scooter

if u want an easy install kinda cheap and be on the road quick go the ca...


if u want to make BIG power...... forget the SR and go to FJ
ohhhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhhh

Nebuchernezzer

Quoteif u want to make BIG power...... forget the SR and go to FJ
But remember it WILL need a rebuild straight up to make big power, they are strong but they are old and it\'s a big heavy lump in the front of your car hehe
If you are looking for straightline speed a 13BREW will probably be the best sized package for the nose of the car, or you could try an RB25DET or a 1JZGTE if they will fit (they probably will just).  Someone around here did a VG30DETT to, but all those options will be a bit of a pain to fit and apart from the 13B prolly make your car nose heavy (big overhang in front of the front axle to).

If looks could kill you'd have eyes like cyanide...
http://www.cardomain.com/id/zeruel

Scooter

well i think everyone should rebuild there motor if u are going to be giving it
ohhhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhhh

2BDFRNT

Quote
Internals of an SR are proven to withstand 200-220rwkw and like it!
No CA in australia atm is doing that, be lucky to get 180rwkw on stock internals.
While the bottom end of the SR is strong, they have a shitty valvetrain. No two ways about it mate. Rev \'em past 9 grand without Tomei rocker blockers or other such mod, and they WILL break. Simple as that.
Quote
Dont get me wrong I love my little CA engine but the fact is, they are NOT the better engine. THEY ARE NOT STRONGER. They ARE NOT as reliable especially when the power rises.
Well...they ARE stronger. No if\'s, no but\'s. Cast iron block, under piston oil squirters, and a proper racing valvetrain, ala the FJ20. The only downside is the capacity. Simple as that. IF the CA was a 2 litre like the SR, it would win hands down. But its not, so the choice is ultimately up to what you are after. If you are only aiming at around 180rear-wheel kw, I would go the CA. It will reach this point as easily as the SR and wont blow up. But if you want 200+rwkw, well, its SR time. But they DO require valvetrain mods after the 180rwkw point, or they are just a bomb, waiting to blow as soon as you over-rev. Of course an FJ20 is the best of both, and then some....400rear wheel kw anyone?
Gus:
S12\'s....sigh. Had one, lost it, got another...lost it. Back to the drawing board.
_________________

Damn, I got Hyundai Exel all over my bodykit!!!

gerrybg

Touche Bart, common sense answer! I have an sr in my s12 and like it , but I like the CA for the s12 (roadcar) because, CA18det\'s were put into s12\'s in Japan in their first production run, therefore the engine is easier to fit into an s12. (sr takes up more space and sits higher). Here in Australia you can get plenty of aftermarket stuff for a CA, granted as salps said not as much as an sr. You can get a gasket set down at your local auto accessories retailer, as its the same as the s13 Nissan EXA , that used a fwd ca18de that was sold here new in Australia in the late 80\'s and early 90\'s.
If I was to do another swap into an s12 to drive around town everyday it would be a ca18det, because its easier and cheaper., and they are lots of fun. For grunt , and say drags etc. its the sr.

Nebuchernezzer

QuoteRev \'em past 9 grand without Tomei rocker blockers or other such mod, and they WILL break
Don\'t rev them past 9k they aren\'t designed to take it....if you do fit rocker stoppers and solid lifters...revs are somthing you use when you have gotten all the power you can already another way.
QuoteWell...they ARE stronger. No if\'s, no but\'s. Cast iron block, under piston oil squirters, and a proper racing valvetrain, ala the FJ20
Quote
Stronger and more advanced arent the same thing, sure the CA18 has more advanced features and a better valvetrain but that makes it by no means able to take more power, yet it is iron but the SR has some much alu to make up the difference it\'s a negligible advantage.
There was a 250+kw@rw CA18 in aus for a while, it had a 2L bore stroke etc, it was an ex japan street drag car, it was strong then the block cracked...although 250 is a massive number in anyones books.

If looks could kill you'd have eyes like cyanide...
http://www.cardomain.com/id/zeruel

IronCross

It\'s easy to make the CA a 2 liter, Tomei makes a kit with pistons, rods, and a crank that converts it to a CA20DET:devil: . That\'s what I\'m doing. It does cost a decent amount of money though.
84 CA20e Hatch (Solid Axle)
85 CA20e Hatch (IRS)
1998 Ranger 4x4
97 ACR Neon (Currently Deceased)
 
If you can\'t buy it, make it, if you can\'t make it, well......you\'re screwed

salps12

Like what was said, why would u revv out an engine that finshes making power at 7K? WTF is the SR running a GT40 Turbo?

The SR has alot more development put into it now with the S15 being brought out, the damn CA is a dinosaur now  :-?

180rwkw no a CA, on standard internals. Just doesnt happen. Plus the size of the turbo needed and bolt on bits to get it there would cost a but load compared to what it would take to get the SR there.
SR + S15 T28BB = 200rwkw
CA + GTRS HKS  = 185rwkw
GTRS = $4000 AUD
S15 T28bb = $1000AUD

I know what I would pick. Has this been proven... Bet your ass it has!  Zoom magazine on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno on Shootout mode  :mike:

Plus Ive been told by reliable and people in the know that high power CAs also crack blocks. high being 250rwkw+
[span style=\'color:RoyalBlue\']Gazelle: CA18DET[/span]
S15 T28BB - ARC intercooler - oil cooler w/ remote mount filter - Rb20 AFM - Boxed pod - Hyrbid EBC - HSV 300kw Fuel pump - Xtreme HD Clutch - DBA Slotted Discs w/ f:RB74  r:Comp2 pads - JIC Front coilovers & Rear kyb shocks and kingsprings

[span style=\'color:DeepSkyBlue\']POWER:[/span] unknown (approx 140rwkw)

YellowPreludeR

Hey ironcross.   \"Who needs the D in CA20DET ?  :lick: \"  Just playing.  Are you really gonna do the CA20DET. Cause if you are, ill get some #\'s and you will get some #\'s and we will see how close the power bands are and what the D really does :)
--Yellow--
Current Car : 1984 BMW 533i Turbo /w custom M30B34
[Oo=00=oO]
Old ride : 1985 Nissan 200sx Turbo /w custom CA20ET
  (O=O/ S-12 O=O)

Euroboy

QuoteLike what was said, why would u revv out an engine that finshes making power at 7K? WTF is the SR running a GT40 Turbo?

The SR has alot more development put into it now with the S15 being brought out, the damn CA is a dinosaur now  :-?  

180rwkw no a CA, on standard internals. Just doesnt happen. Plus the size of the turbo needed and bolt on bits to get it there would cost a but load compared to what it would take to get the SR there.
SR + S15 T28BB = 200rwkw
CA + GTRS HKS  = 185rwkw
GTRS = $4000 AUD
S15 T28bb = $1000AUD

I know what I would pick. Has this been proven... Bet your ass it has!  Zoom magazine on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno on Shootout mode  :mike:  

Plus Ive been told by reliable and people in the know that high power CAs also crack blocks. high being 250rwkw+




s15 sr20det=5000CAD
ca18det hole front clip=1550CAD

looks like i have enough left over to blow the doors to ANY stock sr.
Well i got a \'87 200sx

Nebuchernezzer

Over here it\'s $2500au for CA18DET front cut and $3300au for the S13 SR20DET front cut, sure the S15 cut is massively more expensive but the S13 cut + the S15 turbo is the basic setup needed for big power, S15 248cc or 550cc aftermarket injectors and some other stuff will be needed to but for larger outputs the SR20 will still be cheaper than the CA18DET, for bang for your buck below 180-200rwkw the CA wins though

If looks could kill you'd have eyes like cyanide...
http://www.cardomain.com/id/zeruel