CA18det VS. SR20det

SanDiegoS12 · 07:10:32 AM / 17-Aug-04

CA18det vs. SR20det
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Witch engine has the most bang for the buck?

What engine is overall better regardless of the cost?

What engine can have the most HP?

Can you Bore the CA18det? And how much?

Witch engine would be best for the S12?

Witch engine is easyer to find mods for?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry for all the questions lol i just really wanna know.... friend of mine has a s12 and im just wondering on what this car is capable of with a swap, it has a ca20 in it right now and its just not got any umpff in it anymore....

rob101 · 07:15:42 AM / 17-Aug-04

which which is witch? lol
bang for buck CA18det hands down
CA18det is easier to put in an s12 from what i hear on this board as well

ps i am a CA18DET convert

Joel07 · 07:26:36 AM / 17-Aug-04

1. CA18DET definetly
2. Depends on who you talk to, but probably overall the SR20.
3. Probably the SR20, but again, depends on who you talk to.
4. Don\'t know
5. CA18DET definetly. Easy swap, bolts right in, just wire it up, run the intake plumbing, and you\'re ready to go!
6. Probably the SR20, but it\'s the hot motor right now, and the CA is definetly still a good motor, and MOST definetly the best bang for the buck. You can get a CA clip for about half of what you get a SR20 clip for. HP stock is not much different, so use the money you saved to throw a few bolt ons, and you\'ve got one heck of a powerplant!

Plus it\'s a lot easier swap than the SR20!

Nebuchernezzer · 07:26:44 AM / 17-Aug-04

Witch engine has the most bang for the buck?
Debatable...

What engine is overall better regardless of the cost?
SR20DET

What engine can have the most HP?
SR20DET, the CA18 block has been seen to crack at less HP than a SR. Having said that it\'s still 311kw@rw or so...

Can you Bore the CA18det? And how much?
You can bore/stroke the CA18DET to 2L

Witch engine would be best for the S12?
Best based on what? Cost, ease of install etc... can\'t say

Witch engine is easyer to find mods for?
SR20DET

bizzaro · 12:27:21 PM / 17-Aug-04

What does 311 kw = in HP? Cause [url]http://web.norrisdesigns.com/Feature_Cars_view.asp?FCid=15&strcat=1&id=1&cid=0[/a] claims 511 hp as the most powerful outside of japan. but unless you\'ve got a FAT wallet numbers like that are impossible to come by (well without a BB V8).

Nebuchernezzer · 05:53:19 PM / 17-Aug-04

It\'s about 417hp. It was from a bored/stroked 2L CA18DET that was built in japan and brought to oz a few years ago now. The block cracked after about 6 months though, i have heard a few stories of the CA18 block giving up after a while at those sorts of power outputs. Still pretty fat though

ahoffman83 · 09:06:50 PM / 17-Aug-04

Cryogenic treating of the block would make it last longer at higher output. Here is an article by sport compact car where they cryo treated a VG30DETT block [url]http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/9909scc_proj300zx/[/a]
They said that \"cryo treating can increase wear resistance by over 800 percent, fatigue strength by over 100 percent and tensile strength by up to 25 percent. The typical increase of wear resistance in cast iron like our block is 100 percent.\"

Euroboy · 10:30:35 PM / 17-Aug-04

QuoteWitch engine has the most bang for the buck?
Debatable...

What engine is overall better regardless of the cost?
SR20DET

What engine can have the most HP?
SR20DET, the CA18 block has been seen to crack at less HP than a SR. Having said that it\'s still 311kw@rw or so...

Can you Bore the CA18det? And how much?
You can bore/stroke the CA18DET to 2L

Witch engine would be best for the S12?
Best based on what? Cost, ease of install etc... can\'t say

Witch engine is easyer to find mods for?
SR20DET

i am sorry you think that way about the ca18det.
first of all has been know to crack means that most of over 50% of the engines over 417hp have cracked their block! Which isn\'t true. To crack a block you should take into consideration how the car was used previewsly. It\'s a real shame when one block cracks ppl just say.....OK THAT ENGINE IS SHIT. When in fact the ca holds the same as any other engine with good tuning! Period no matter you are b18, ca, sr, rb.....if your tuning is shit you will break something regardless.

boring it only to 2 litres?
well tomei sell the STROKER kit, and boring it a bit more ppl have 2.1L ca21det!

bang for the buck when you first buy it?
ca18det! period. It costs almost half less and you only off some 25odd hp!

easiest fitting.
Means, which one is the easiest engine to fit. No doubt ca18det if you keep the et tranny, if not they are the same SHIT, or if you want to keep the stock mounts!

from what i have heard sr is known to crack at around that range of power too! Sorry i just disagree with the theory that an engine has been know to crack!

ca18det
pros
true 8 lobe cam
lighter by like 15kg\'s iron block
timing belt
rev happy
responds good to boost
responds excellent to mods
very nice mods in japan
very tough to break
cheap since the 240 kids want sr\'s

cons
not enough aftermarket support in north america
size compare to the sr
doesn\'t like to be ghetto worked on

sr20det
pros
2.0L
a lot of aftermarket support in usa and canada
responds to boost and aftermarket support
everyshop can work on them just like the civics

con
rocker arms
costs an arm and a leg
timing chain
less revs than ca

Johnnyfive · 10:39:39 PM / 17-Aug-04

Why is there another thread on this? I thought this issue was settled a long time ago in the many threads that this has come up in or been the topic of.

Here\'s how it goes. If you want it cheap go CA if you want power go SR. If you want adventure go KA.

Just becuase an engine revs better doesn\'t make it better. I thought the SR\'s revved almost as well as a CA anyway. Oh well... I am not getting into this further

salps12 · 11:10:41 PM / 17-Aug-04

CA = Good drop in motor, makes good power with mods.

SR = Simple drop in with minimal fabricating. Makes MORE power per mod than CA. SR also has more torque and can spool bigger turbos faster.

Nothing wrong with the SR setup. The setup used on the SR rockerarms is used on many motorbikes that rev too 12000+.

Funny you put this under the CA when the SR IS better then the CA at all these things :asshole:

Quote
responds good to boost
responds excellent to mods
very nice mods in japan

SR WINS! Unless you live in the USA where SRs are overpriced.

Nebuchernezzer · 11:35:04 PM / 17-Aug-04

I didn\'t say that engine was shit euroboy, if i did a swap again on a S12 i would consider the CA18DET again (as i have mentioned to alot of people before). Anyways you seem to have taken it all rather badly. If an engine cracks it might not have been tuned badly, it may have reached the mechanical limit of that particular block, it is a 175hp 1.8L originally after all. After having driven my car for a while i am more and more taken by the SR20DET though. The CA18DET is down a bit on power and alot on torque (torque makes you move, power makes you sound cool

) so on the street the light tune versions of both engines are still fairly far apart in terms of performance.

Anyways he asked i answered. I have fitted both a CA18DET and a SR20DET to S12s (one my mates and one is mine) and apart from the gearbox/tailshaft the fitment is almost identical. Wiring is nearly the same etc.

Anyways enough of that comparing a 1.8L turbo motor with a 2.0L turbo motor should be a matter of economics rather than anything else. No replacement for displacement, if you need to be on a tighter budget get a CA18DET and you will be happy, if you have more cash to play with and enjoy an SR20DET. Personal preferance.
No more CA vs SR threads...

SHEPPO3930 · 12:10:10 AM / 18-Aug-04

here\'s an idea..............

DONT COMPARE 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT ENGINES!

thats where i stand (with mechanical engineering qualifications)

dont think they are different, read here, this is written by one of Australia\'s most popular jap importers...

CA18DET review:
[url]http://members.iinet.net/~sayers/biscuits/ca18.htm[/a]

SR20DET review:
[url]http://members.iinet.net/~sayers/biscuits/sr20.htm[/a]

Also the reason there\'s a lack of aftermarket support for the CA18DET is because if wasnt offerend to the public for too long, as the SR has been in business from 1990 to the new S15\'s!!! so there\'s SR\'s out there!

I aint goint to say whats better as i dont care, they each have pros, cons and different charactoristics.

to all the keyboard warriors: \"NO MORE CA18DET v\'s SR20DET POLLS\"

its like comparing apples with bananas!

rob101 · 12:11:34 AM / 18-Aug-04

I concur with Nebuchernezzer
I reckon next time someone brings it up they should be told to read the old threads

Nebuchernezzer · 09:31:15 AM / 18-Aug-04

Oh yeah i just went and looked at the link for the 511hp 180sx. It has a fat build up but last i checked the TD06-25G wasn\'t that big a turbo, in fact as i recall it\'s more at the response end. Prolly slightly big on the CA18DET but still not a monster. The 311kw CA18DET in oz had a drag setup, T88-33D i think it was, definitely a highmount lag inducing snail

Anyways just my last word, this thread should go quietly into the night now.

Euroboy · 07:29:48 PM / 18-Aug-04

QuoteI didn\'t say that engine was shit euroboy, if i did a swap again on a S12 i would consider the CA18DET again (as i have mentioned to alot of people before). Anyways you seem to have taken it all rather badly. If an engine cracks it might not have been tuned badly, it may have reached the mechanical limit of that particular block, it is a 175hp 1.8L originally after all. After having driven my car for a while i am more and more taken by the SR20DET though. The CA18DET is down a bit on power and alot on torque (torque makes you move, power makes you sound cool ) so on the street the light tune versions of both engines are still fairly far apart in terms of performance.

Anyways he asked i answered. I have fitted both a CA18DET and a SR20DET to S12s (one my mates and one is mine) and apart from the gearbox/tailshaft the fitment is almost identical. Wiring is nearly the same etc.

Anyways enough of that comparing a 1.8L turbo motor with a 2.0L turbo motor should be a matter of economics rather than anything else. No replacement for displacement, if you need to be on a tighter budget get a CA18DET and you will be happy, if you have more cash to play with and enjoy an SR20DET. Personal preferance.
No more CA vs SR threads...

i never claimed you said the engine is shit
so have i. I have worked on b13 with sr\'s in there
and on nicco forums there are some guys running more than 417hp
and personally i have never seen a sr20 with sock engine just turbo ecu and incjecor upgrade to run more thn 417hp. It\'s just not safe
PERIOD
if you will run that much with engine and basically having an output twice as much sooner or later you will reach a break point
mechanical failure and mechanical limits? WHY?
because of good flow oil pump, true twin cam?, oil squirters?
btw just in case you didn\'t know the roots of a ca18det is a rb engine with 2 cylinders choped off. The ca is the research of rb! blocks look very similiar and ca is a rb chopped off with less cc.

Jsvob03 · 08:04:50 PM / 22-Aug-04

So..besides the ECU, Harness, and MOTOR itself, what is needed to do this swap?(SR20DET) Rough estimates are nice..

Nebuchernezzer · 08:20:58 PM / 22-Aug-04

The gearbox, the CA box would probably fit if you used a SR bellhousing on it (i\'m looking into this for a SR powered corolla i have) but using the SR box would probably be best.

Quotebtw just in case you didn\'t know the roots of a ca18det is a rb engine with 2 cylinders choped off. The ca is the research of rb! blocks look very similiar and ca is a rb chopped off with less cc.

And?

SHEPPO3930 · 08:25:01 PM / 22-Aug-04

RB with 2 cylinders chopped off........................................i dunno bout that, it would idle badly, be outta ballance and have a really rough edge from where the chainsaw went through the motor, be hard to mount a bellhousing! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA man us engineers have a sick sence of humour!

Euroboy · 02:19:36 AM / 23-Aug-04

you do understand what i ment by that now don\'t you?!

Mr.200 · 10:50:14 AM / 23-Aug-04

Sounds like a Chrysler motor ... the 3.9 V6 is actually a 5.2 V8 with the back 2 cylinders chopped off. All to save $$ on parts.

I still find it a bit surprising that an iron block would come apart before an alloy one.

But I also agree ... don\'t compare motors.

The power # a motor can make is a finite number based on CFM it can flow.

That is a theoretical number.

It\'s up to the engine builder to find a way to make the motor need all that CFM.

Ignore dyno sheets. Dynos are so easy to trick, and the power #s you can build in a no load scenario can easily shatter a motor under load.

1/4 mile ... great litmus, you need big power and big skills to get good #s.

If your SR20 makes 417 hp without coming apart ... great. If your 417hp SR runs 14.5 in the 1/4 and gets eaten by a 300hp ca18det ... does that mean it\'s a better motor and everyone on all Nissan forums should build a ca18det and throw away the SR?

No.

No one can tell you anything other than an average of where a stock motor will come apart. A good rule of thumb is 2X advertised output.

Laws of engineering.

So that puts the ca18det at 350hp

the SR at 407-430

ca20e - 204

ca18et - 270

B16A - 40 :finger:

But those are STOCK numbers.

Why blow up a stock motor to find out?

You can\'t expect any motor to live for periods of big power for very long without building it to take it.

And those power numbers are where \"breakage\" of hard internal parts are likely to start.

Wear and tear failures start much sooner.